Barry2 

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EDIT:
TLDR - SUMMARY OF THIS THREAD
Installed two Conti GP 5000 S TR onto my Mavic Ksyrium alloy (Fore, no rim tape) rims with 35ml Stans No Tubes sealant.
I've been installing GP 5000TL this way for 8,000 miles without issues.
Both front and rear 5000 S TR dropped 30-40 PSI overnight despite being ridden and given days to finalize the seal.

Dismounted tires, cleaned Stans from tire and rim, remounted the same tires with 35ml Orange Seal Regular.
Front tire dropped 5 PSI overnight.
Rear tire dropped 10 PSI but has yet to be ridden (I suspect this will improve)
Edit…with about 100 miles on them, overnight loss is now minimal.
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BEGIN ORIGINAL POSTING...
I've been using Conti GP 5000 TL for the last 8000 miles on my Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels.
The significance of the wheel is that they are Alloy and do not have a Rim Tape. So, no leaks there.
Mavic calls this "Fore" for anyone interested
My GP 5000 TL with 35ml "Stans No Tubes" would lose a couple PSI overnight, no big deal.

Recently installedGP 5000 S TR. Even scrubbed the wheels with a wet bristle brush to remove any old sealant.
The "S TR" version being the new Tubeless replacement version of the GP 5000 TL.

The GP 5000 S TR leak. Both front and rear wheels (still the same Ksyrium) are losing 20-30 PSI overnight.
And have been doing so for several days.

I've not dunked them like in this video, but I suspect the same issue. EDIT: The now non available video was showing 5000 S TR bubbling under water through the sidewalls.



Unhappy Continental Customer

Barry

smashndash

How much sealant have you added? The old GP5000 didn't need sealant to seal. The new one does. I would add a bit more sealant, keep the tire deflated, and roll it around a bit. Then add air and ride around a bit.

edit: seems all the comments on your video say the same. This is certainly not indicative of a design flaw.

Barry2 

I've always added 35ml Stans No Tubes.
I've got ~8,000 miles on 5000 TL and had to replace several due to road damage.
Never an issue with sealing after cleaning the rim.

I've contacted Continental to see what they say.
My hope is that this is just a bad batch and not a design flaw. I've ridden them and they ride nice.

Barry

vespasianus

Try some glitter in your tire. And you might have to use much more sealant, like 100ml. If you have air bubbles coming out but not sealant, well that means you don't have enough sealant.

Barry2 

I'll put glitter on my eyelids before I put it in my tires.
And I'm not putting glitter on my eyelids!

I'll wait for Continentals reply, then experiment if need be.

Barry

squirtdad

Pictures

no help on issue I am tube or tubular guy do like my 28mm gp5000 though

scottfsmith

There is another thread going now on this exact same topic:

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ring-ride.html

tFUnK

Since it's leaking from the bead and not through the sidewalls, have you tried seating them first with a tube and pumping them up to a high psi to allow them to stretch/settle?

Barry2 

tFUnK
What makes you think it’s at the bead ?

Barry

vespasianus

I am starting to believe there is a reason why some people have no issue with tubeless tires and other do....

Barry2 

vespasianus ,
So rather than an ambiguous innuendo why don’t you spell it out ?

please do feel free to elaborate

Barry

tFUnK

Thought this was implied by the video you had linked to? I guess you did not confirm this, yet?
Edit: ok it was hard to see in the video where the bead was exactly, so it could be leaking through the sidewall.

smashndash

hm interesting. Yeah 35ml should be enough. How old is your bottle of sealant? I had an old bottle of sealant and my vittoria would lose similar pressure. But then I bought a new bottle of sealant and did the thing I suggested above. Now it holds really well.

dsaul

In my experience, TL(tubeless) tires have a sealed sidewall that doesn't require sealant. TR(tubeless ready) tires have a porous sidewall that requires a tube or sealant to seal the sidewall. Stans is not particularly good at sealing the sidewalls and tends to weep the red carrier liquid through the sidewalls, even after they are sealed. 35ml of sealant is probably not enough to seal the sidewalls and still have some left for punctures. I would use about 60ml. I have found Orange Seal(original formula) to be much better at sealing the sidewalls without weeping and an overall better sealant than Stans.

Barry2 

well that would answer a lot. Assuming I’m not suffering from a bad batch of tires, the leaking issue being sealant specific would explain why all S TR users are not up in arms.
Ive always used Stan’s and never had a reason to change, this might be it.

thanks

Barry

GhostRider62

There are not too many GP5000S TR users out there, yet.

In my specific issue with these tires, they do not leak much overnight but they do leak and they leak a lot during a ride, perhaps 2 psi or more per hour. Switching from Orange Endurance to Regular has helped my situation. I have not made measurements yet. It has been 10 frustrating days with these tires and I am sick of tubeless, it solves a problem that does not exist while creating its own challenges. It is very clear the air is escaping from the sidewalls, it is plain as day when the tires are immersed in a bath tub of water. Putting soapy water on the bead, valve or spokes gets no bubbles. If it turns out that a prolonged (a week) period of time is needed to get the sidewalls sealed and if they do not plug up with Stans or Orange Endurance, Conti hasn't done their homework. At the minimum, they need to put that requirement in some instructions. Yes, I have rotated the wheels 90 degrees on both sides a million times and yes, I have a crap load of brand new sealant inside.

Barry2 

I’m off out today and just pumped tires.
Rear lost 40 psi overnight.
Front lost 30 psi overnight.

I’ve found Orange Regular in stock locally and will buy today.
I will remove tire, scrub rim, scrub inside of tire and reseal with Orange Regular. I hope to report back tomorrow.

Barry

scottfsmith

You might want to look at the other thread I linked above, that guy tried orange regular and it was better than what he used before but it was still leaking. I would have a look at my comment on that other thread about setting the tires on their sides to give the sealant a good long time to get into the sidewalls.. worked for me on a different brand of tire.

masi61

In the video, all the air bubbles are adhering to the rim edge. I don't see clear evidence of bubbling from the sidewalls themselves, just bubbling from the bead. I would think that is is not uncommon to think you have done a proper tubeless tire install only to find that the bead hasn't "popped" fully into place. How much pressure are you using to mount the tires? When they start to hold air do they "pop" definitively? Just curious.

GhostRider62

The air coming out of my sidewalls looks just like this video but not nearly as bad.

scottfsmith

That is similar to what my Vittoria Terreno Dry looked like. Definitely a factory return. I had no problems getting my money back.

After seeing all these threads I decided to mount one of my S TR's (I was waiting for a rear rim replacement before swapping tires as I was wanting to do both wheels together). I just did a water test and absolute zero leaks found (this was after adding sealant and letting sit; should have done an initial test as well). The main problem I had was getting the suckers on the rims, they are a very tight tire compared to others I have mounted on my Roval CLX50 rims.

Barry2 

Which sealant did you use?

Oh, I can help you get them in the rim…..
Getting that last 10-12” on the rim is tough.
As you lever on the left, the right moves around the rim away from you.
Bind the right side to the rim with 2’ of parachute cord, now it can’t run away.
Then lever the left side onto the rim 1” at a time. If you try to lever too much on at a time it just won’t go. So just 1” at a time!

Barry

scottfsmith

I am using the new Silca stuff: https://silca.cc/pages/ultimate-sealant . I don't think for a weeping sidewall that it matters much, it is a standard latex-based carrier. The main thing new in this sealant is the kind of particulate added to seal larger leaks -- for sealing punctures on the road this new stuff looks like it will be awesome. I recently switched to their Super Secret lube and generally am very impressed with their R&D.

I don't quite get what you are doing with the cord, are you running it in the trough of the rim to keep the side already in there centered? The odd thing for me is the hardest bit was getting the first bead on, not the final one. Usually I don't even think about that first step, it just pops on. Here I found I had to do it the opposite way I normally did - normally I would put the first bead on in the same direction I put the final one on, rim starts on the inside of the bead and pop the bead over the rim to get one side of the tire all in. I had to do the opposite, outside of bead is outside the rim. Once I figured that out the final bead was not super hard although I did need to use tire levers.

Barry2 

Bind between two spokes, around the rim and tire….. tight.
It will stop the tire bead coming off the rim as you lever the other side onto the rim, towards the binding

Barry

Barry2 

Oh look I’ve quoted myself.
The time Space Continuum is going to take a hit on this one.

So as promised, I scrubbed the front rim and inside of the tire, then reseated with 35ml Orange Regular Sealant.

Bearing in mind all I did with the front was roll it around a bit.
The rear has had several days and been ridden a couple of times.

Last night pumpedem both to 85 psi.

and the results are in

Rear lost 45 psi overnight using Stan’s No Tubes
Front lost 5 psi using Orange Regular Sealant.

Who’da-thunk sealant would make that much difference.
I’ll scrub and change the rear tomorrow.

Barry