Ron Damon

Oh, please. There are many people who can afford a Brompton, but buy a clone nevertheless because they gauge the Brompton is overpriced and the clone offers 95% the performance at 40% the price. It's not like you can afford it, others can't. It's like some others simply have better money sense.

Schwinnsta

Ok, so what about the people who buy clones of clones.

Bleu

A lot of the shape of Schwinns dip brazed frames comes from the way the tubes are swaged and punched and pre joined before brazing. I had also assumed them to all be fillet brazed too, upon looking at the smooth joints on their frames. Of course there were lugged and brazed Schwinns and they did fillet braze a few. Dip brazing was a revolutionary manufacturing technique ,probably because it yielded such pretty results and cost half what welding did ( hourly wages had risen, now everything is made by slave labor in China)

Bleu

Electro forged came later, but they have some similarities.

freckles

No I meant a fake clone as in- a cheaper no name trifold clone with a fake decal of known clone brands (like 3sixty, Pikes) on it and sold as a real 3sixty, Pikes etc.

I've been searching all over and maybe just getting confused w/online options...

Duragrouch

Interesting. I could see that being the case, perhaps flaring the tube (in addition to mitering it by punch), to give the appearance of a large fillet brazing. Flaring would also make the joint stronger.

Jipe

To come back to the original question, why not 'trying to find) a Dahon Curl instead of clone coming from an unknown manufacturer?

Duragrouch

Yeah I have enthusiasm from what I have seen of the Curl, disc brakes and all external gearing I prefer, I even worked out the gearing for mods to get what I need. Who knows when this latest version will come to market, and the price.

freckles

I like that the Dahon Curl folds down compactly too but -
1) lacks pig nose to clamp a front bag onto
2) prefer no more than 6 gears (to keep a tighter fold)
3) is it sold in the US?

Jipe

I agree with you that a front bag is very useful.

9 gears instead of 6 gears is an advantage since it has no influence on the folded width (BTW, its the same for the Brompton: enlarging the rear triangle from the Brompton 110mm to standard 135mm doesn't change the folded width).

From what I have found on the web, its currently sold nowhere!

I think its because its a new model for 2024 and not yet distributed to resellers, usually new models appear in shops in late winter, early spring.

Duragrouch

Stop making sense. +1.

freckles

Oh- I thought more external gears (going from 3 gears to 9 gears) would make the fold wider? Some videos mentioned a wider fold due to the 9 external gears vs 3 external gears/IGH with the trade off being more gears for wider terrain.

I'm interested in the Mint BOB6- has 6 external gears, v brakes- weighs 10.6 kg vs Mint BOB9- has 9 external gears, hydraulic brakes, weighs 13 kg. The Mint BOB3 with 3 external gears weighs just 9.5kg- super tempting but I don't know how it'll be to ride on 14" tires, even for short distances, over Los Angeles potholed roads.

Jipe

14" is a size with a limited choice of tires and mainly cheap, low end tires. I wouldn't buy a bike with this wheel size.

Ron Damon

It won't be pretty. I live in a place characterized by rapid development and construction everywhere as new housing stock is added. This means that new roads need to be opened to access idle land. These new urban "roads" are rough, and they often remain so even after the surrounding development is complete. I know them, I live them.

If your roads ain't smooth, you don't want anything with a wheel/tire below 50-305 and you don't want higher pressure, narrower ISO349 wheels that top out at 37mm wide tires either. A fat 57-305 tire, for example, will approach the diameter of a 37-349 tire, but will be more cushy and comfortable due to the wider, taller carcass and lower pressure. Don't fall into the 349 trap.

freckles

What kind of folder do you have???? A Brompton clone?

freckles

Yes, the 14" smaller wheels are a turn off plus I know it'll be harder to find quality replacement tires too but the overall lower carrying weight and even smaller fold peaks my curiosity!
I will most likely stick with a true Brompton clone with 16" wheels...

Ron Damon

My earlier comment about wheel-size was Operating System independent.

My small-wheeler is a bi-fold FnHon Gust 16".
.

Duragrouch

Bromptons with 2 cogs and 3 IGH, run a narrower than standard O.L.D. (outer locknut distance, the width of the hub in the rear dropouts) in back, I think(?) 110mm. However there are conversions (new rear triangle) that convert Bromptons to 135mm O.L.D. (a MUCH more common standard), to use an Alfine 11 (all gears internal), and I think they fold fine though I haven't seen one, others on here can say for sure.

Once you have a 135mm O.L.D. envelope in back, externally, everything is the same, with a wide (distance between spoke flanges) IGH hub and 2 cogs, taking up the same space as (only) 9 external cogs (on a much narrower hub). HOWEVER, with one qualifier, and that is how much the 9 speed rear derailleur sticks out beyond the dropout (when fully "in" on the large cog), versus the 2 speed derailleur on a traditional Brompton, and whether any additional width causes a wider fold, or if that is just enveloped in complimentary gaps in the front section that folds over it, given the drivetrain is on the inside of a trifold like a Brompton.

The external 9-speed Dahon Curl is designed to compete with the Brompton. That (latest) Curl also has a single sided fork for a more compact fold (versus a double blade fork, not necessarily the Brompton). The previous Curl, all IGH, had a conventional double fork. So that may tell you something.

freckles

Thank you! I did have to read it a few times to understand it but I appreciate your explanation! People here on BF are incredibly smart, mechanical and generous to share their knowledge!
The Dahon Curl single sided fork sounds intriguing... Am I wrong thinking there was a mountain bike with a single sided fork???

Duragrouch

YES! It was the Cannondale with the Lefty fork. Which is almost what I called the new Dahon Curl, except that it's a Righty. And here is why that is interesting: Typical front brake calipers, on the aft side of the left fork blade, under braking torque, cause the entire wheel to be pulled DOWN, sometimes hard enough to pull out of the dropouts, especially with a conventional quick-release axle. Flipping the caliper around to the forward side of the left fork won't work, the slot is wrong for the disc. You could mount it forward but inverted, but the cable would exit down. This is the driver I believe for thru-axle designs. But on a Righty fork, you can mount the caliper on the FRONT, cable up, and it lines up with a disc on the right, and wheel is actually pushed UP under braking. And it all uses a standard caliper. Why other makers with double bladed forks did not think of this and mount the caliper and disc on the right side, I don't know, probably just didn't think of it. In the rear (where you can't put the disc and caliper on the right, because it's the drive side with sprockets and chain), newer designs have the caliper above, or forward of the axle (inside the triangle) to solve this, or have a thru-axle.

Etzu

Here is another clone. I was considering getting the 20" wheel version.

They also make an aluminum frame.

I also have a clone. It's electric. Alps trifold with a Nexus hub. They come in 3 SPD and 7 SPD.

Uses balloon tires. Softer ride. Handlebars adjust in length. It's actually not bad at all

You can find them on Amazon.

So what did you end up deciding on?

Duragrouch

I looked on amazon at the Alps: (and is there another different clone? You didn't mention the brand.)
Likes:
- Good price; Electric at $1299, black, 7 speeds, and $909 if I join prime(!). Red one "used - very good", but only 3 speeds, $899. Brompton C-Line electric is $3700.
- Disc brakes, that is something not offered on Brompton.
- Telescoping stem, with (M?) type forward and aft swinging handlebars.
- 7 speed IGH probably means 130 or 135mm OLD in back, so much easier and cheaper to find replacement hub or wheel, versus Brompton's b@stard-size of 110mm.

What I don't like:
- EDIT: IT TRIFOLDS LEFT, DOESN'T ENVELOP THE DRIVETRAIN AND CHAIN!!
- Front hub for motor and disc brakes, is radially spoked, that is bad. The rear wheel is 1X spoking, but the front carries even greater torque under braking. Brompton uses 0X front spoking but splayed to better transmit torque to rim.
- Batteries inside frame, just behind hinge; If there is a battery fire, it easily destroys the aluminum frame. Much better would be to do like Brompton and have the battery in a small bag that clips to the front carrier, or a fixed battery on the back side of the seat tube. But bagging the battery allows you to sling that over your shoulder and split up the load when carrying the bike up stairs.

I'd like to know what non-electric price is.

Ron Damon

Bicycle 101
Radial, zero-cross wheel lacing & disc brakes = bad, very bad

Duragrouch

I know. It's like, "You had one job, and that was to copy a successful design."

Here's another of their designs; That lower elbow is going to flex like mad, perhaps provide some suspension, but I worry about fatigue, especially if aluminum:



Their website is awful. Can't find it now, but clicking on shipping, it said something like, "I am shipping. This is where you provide shipping information to your customers." And it was the same for other click-options. Grammar is clunky, like they have no USA or UK reps to proofread for them. Lot's of blah-blah hype:
I do love this:



OH SNAP! IT TRIFOLDS LEFT, DOESN'T ENVELOP THE DRIVETRAIN AND CHAIN!!

Etzu

[QUOTE=Duragrouch;23156273]I looked on amazon at the Alps: (and is there another different clone? You didn't mention the brand.)
[\QUOTE]

IGOGOMI ​​​​​​​