Santa Cruz Stigmata Questions/Opinions
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Santa Cruz Stigmata Questions/Opinions
Hey everyone -
So I'm contemplating the purchase of a new Santa Cruz Stigmata in 54c with the SRAM Rival 1x build. My LBS has a shipment coming in in a month so I put a refundable deposit down but they unfortunately don't have one for me to test ride.
One of my main reasons for upgrading, beyond the fact that I love gravel riding and have been doing it way more than road riding since I bought my first gravel bike, is that my current bike (Scott Speedster Gravel) has very road-orientend geometry (72.5 degree head angle, short wheelbase) that makes toe overlap an issue on switchbacks. Does anyone that has a newer model Stigmata have any issues with toe overlap? I have size 9.5 shoes if that matters.
The other bikes I'm considering are a Lauf True Grit and an Ibis Hakka which are somewhat similar in price, so if anyone bought any of these 3 over the others, I'd love to hear about why.
Thanks!
So I'm contemplating the purchase of a new Santa Cruz Stigmata in 54c with the SRAM Rival 1x build. My LBS has a shipment coming in in a month so I put a refundable deposit down but they unfortunately don't have one for me to test ride.
One of my main reasons for upgrading, beyond the fact that I love gravel riding and have been doing it way more than road riding since I bought my first gravel bike, is that my current bike (Scott Speedster Gravel) has very road-orientend geometry (72.5 degree head angle, short wheelbase) that makes toe overlap an issue on switchbacks. Does anyone that has a newer model Stigmata have any issues with toe overlap? I have size 9.5 shoes if that matters.
The other bikes I'm considering are a Lauf True Grit and an Ibis Hakka which are somewhat similar in price, so if anyone bought any of these 3 over the others, I'd love to hear about why.
Thanks!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,881
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1461 Post(s)
Liked 1,486 Times
in
870 Posts
54cm Stigmata has a 1015mm wheelbase w/ 425mm rear center measurement (chain stay).
54cm Speedster Gravel lists 986.8mm wheelbase w/ 422 rear center (chain stay) measurement.
There's a lot of other variables at play like shoes, crank arm length, cleat position, tire size, etc. but on paper it looks like the Stigmata would give you an extra 25mm of space.
54cm Speedster Gravel lists 986.8mm wheelbase w/ 422 rear center (chain stay) measurement.
There's a lot of other variables at play like shoes, crank arm length, cleat position, tire size, etc. but on paper it looks like the Stigmata would give you an extra 25mm of space.
#3
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,617
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10970 Post(s)
Liked 7,496 Times
in
4,192 Posts
When you say switchbacks, are you referring to twisty singletrack? If so, maybe an MTB is in order. 2 bikes for different styles of riding.
To be clear, my gravel bike is ridden on our flat river bottom twisty singletrack too as its plenty of tire and handling is quicker which I like. Im not knocking how you use the bike.
To be clear, my gravel bike is ridden on our flat river bottom twisty singletrack too as its plenty of tire and handling is quicker which I like. Im not knocking how you use the bike.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,881
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1461 Post(s)
Liked 1,486 Times
in
870 Posts
My 54cm Cannondale CX bike has some toe overlap as well. I've never really found it to be a problem, but I'm also not usually trying to pedal while going slowly around a tight corner. I can see how if you're climbing something really steep and going slow, trying to continue pedaling while navigating a very tight turn, it might become a problem.
The solution to toe overlap is just to ride faster.
The solution to toe overlap is just to ride faster.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,268
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
288 Posts
I have an Ibis Hakka in a 55cm size. I wear a 9.5 shoe as well and have NO toe overlap with the 650b wheels and 2.1 inch tires... Hope that helps. I would definitely avoid toe overlap on a gravel bike...
#6
Senior Member
It is possible to calculate the front center (bb to axle) measurement from a geometry chart using some trig. You need the chainstay measurement, the BB drop and the wheelbase.
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Did you buy the Ibis in the 650b configuration? Or did you buy a separate wheelset?
#9
Full Member
I have 2 wheelsets for my Niner RLT9 and I get toe overlap with 40s on the 700c wheels and no overlap on 47s on the 650b wheels. Maybe go for the smaller diameter wheels on the Stigmata if you can order it that way.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times
in
35 Posts
FWIW my gravel 650x47s and road 700x28s are extremely close to the same rolling diameter, close enough never to think about geometry changes or toe overlap etc
If I was checking a box for factory wheels either 650 or 700, I'd check 650. Light wheels are always nice, but with relatively heavy 650 tires the difference between factory and very good light aftermarket wheels will be less noticeable than with light road tires. Especially so if you want a deeper section road wheelset for aero, where spending real money for light carbon rims will really pay off
If I was checking a box for factory wheels either 650 or 700, I'd check 650. Light wheels are always nice, but with relatively heavy 650 tires the difference between factory and very good light aftermarket wheels will be less noticeable than with light road tires. Especially so if you want a deeper section road wheelset for aero, where spending real money for light carbon rims will really pay off
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
FWIW my gravel 650x47s and road 700x28s are extremely close to the same rolling diameter, close enough never to think about geometry changes or toe overlap etc
If I was checking a box for factory wheels either 650 or 700, I'd check 650. Light wheels are always nice, but with relatively heavy 650 tires the difference between factory and very good light aftermarket wheels will be less noticeable than with light road tires. Especially so if you want a deeper section road wheelset for aero, where spending real money for light carbon rims will really pay off
If I was checking a box for factory wheels either 650 or 700, I'd check 650. Light wheels are always nice, but with relatively heavy 650 tires the difference between factory and very good light aftermarket wheels will be less noticeable than with light road tires. Especially so if you want a deeper section road wheelset for aero, where spending real money for light carbon rims will really pay off
Likes For speedyspaghetti:
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Is it a significant amount of overlap? Or can you deal with it on tight switchbacks? Unfortunately only the super expensive builds of the Stigmata come with a 650 option, so I'll have to buy separate.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times
in
35 Posts
You do need to be careful not to lose the star ratchets or the small springs, so it's not completely trivial the first couple times. And the star ratchets have a special grease that needs to stay on them, so less handling is better (also it's pretty gunky and hard to remove from fingers and clothes). Obviously cassette cogs get greasy too (unless you hot-wax the chain...)
I have four wheelsets with DT Swiss in my garage, and I move the cassettes around all the time. It's a really sweet feature
EDIT - 350 has the star ratchets that can come loose. 370 has traditional pawls, which is even easier to swap as I don't think these can come loose as easily when swapping. Though I've seen that recently you can get a kit to swap the pawls to a star-ratchet system on the 370, which most people consider an upgrade.
You do need the hubs on both rear wheels to be the same, I don't think you can swap 370 to 350 or vice-versa (even with the ratchet upgrade kit). Corrections welcome though
Last edited by fourfa; 04-23-21 at 11:57 AM.
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Ah but you're in luck - the build sheet I'm looking at says it has DT Swiss 350 or 370 hubs. These feature a tool-free freehub removal - keep your one cassette, and just pop it from one wheelset to the other in seconds. No chain whip, no lockring removal, no tools at all, just pull outward on the cogs and the whole hub shell + cassette pop right off.
You do need to be careful not to lose the star ratchets or the small springs, so it's not completely trivial the first couple times. And the star ratchets have a special grease that needs to stay on them, so less handling is better (also it's pretty gunky and hard to remove from fingers and clothes). Obviously cassette cogs get greasy too (unless you hot-wax the chain...)
I have four wheelsets with DT Swiss in my garage, and I move the cassettes around all the time. It's a really sweet feature
EDIT - 350 has the star ratchets that can come loose. 370 has traditional pawls, which is even easier to swap as I don't think these can come loose as easily when swapping. Though I've seen that recently you can get a kit to swap the pawls to a star-ratchet system on the 370, which most people consider an upgrade.
You do need the hubs on both rear wheels to be the same, I don't think you can swap 370 to 350 or vice-versa (even with the ratchet upgrade kit). Corrections welcome though
You do need to be careful not to lose the star ratchets or the small springs, so it's not completely trivial the first couple times. And the star ratchets have a special grease that needs to stay on them, so less handling is better (also it's pretty gunky and hard to remove from fingers and clothes). Obviously cassette cogs get greasy too (unless you hot-wax the chain...)
I have four wheelsets with DT Swiss in my garage, and I move the cassettes around all the time. It's a really sweet feature
EDIT - 350 has the star ratchets that can come loose. 370 has traditional pawls, which is even easier to swap as I don't think these can come loose as easily when swapping. Though I've seen that recently you can get a kit to swap the pawls to a star-ratchet system on the 370, which most people consider an upgrade.
You do need the hubs on both rear wheels to be the same, I don't think you can swap 370 to 350 or vice-versa (even with the ratchet upgrade kit). Corrections welcome though
Likes For speedyspaghetti:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times
in
35 Posts
Ah, that's a shame. I went and found the press release, looks like the conversion freehub bodies are indeed different than the stock 350 bodies. Too bad.
#16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Ah, that's a shame. I went and found the press release, looks like the conversion freehub bodies are indeed different than the stock 350 bodies. Too bad.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times
in
35 Posts
Well if the cassette cost is the original sticking point, there's Eagle clones on alibaba... I have an SROAD 10-36 11-sp for my 2x and I'm very happy with it. There are a million varieties but so far I haven't seen anything bad about SROAD cassettes. They're a little popular on here because they're very light, one-piece milled steel like XX1 but 1/4 the price. Probably cheaper than the DTSwiss conversion kit TBH
#18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 161
Bikes: VeloBuild VB-R-022 // '89 Specialized Allez Full Dura-Ace 7400 // Santa Cruz Stigmata CC // Bridgestone MB-3 BoxTwo 1x Conversion // Bridgestone MB-6 // Santa Cruz Highball C // Ibis Spanky
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Well if the cassette cost is the original sticking point, there's Eagle clones on alibaba... I have an SROAD 10-36 11-sp for my 2x and I'm very happy with it. There are a million varieties but so far I haven't seen anything bad about SROAD cassettes. They're a little popular on here because they're very light, one-piece milled steel like XX1 but 1/4 the price. Probably cheaper than the DTSwiss conversion kit TBH
Ali Cassette
#19
Full Member
With the 700c wheels with 40mm Maxxis Refuse tires, I have approximately a half-inch of overlap on a tight turn. It could be an issue on a really tight uphill switchback, but my local rides don't really have any situations where it's an issue. I've only experienced it while riding when I've had to quickly turn at low speed while pedaling.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver area (Ken Caryl Valley)
Posts: 1,803
Bikes: 2022 Moots RCS, 2014 BMC SLR01 DA Mech, 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata, Ibis Ripmo, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Levo SL, Norco Bigfoot VLT
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
118 Posts
It is a nice and fast bike for sure. It replaced my CruX. I'm on a 58 with size 46/12 shoes and no toe overlap. On a 56, I may get that. My bike was the GRX one and it came with 350s. I like 350s. They can be easily upgraded to ratchets with more teeth and are easy to service. I don't like pawl hubs and always replace those wheel sets with DTs or Chris Kings, so I figured I'd spend a few hundred more for the GRX setup.
For me, it was the Diverge or the Stigmata. I prefer the Future Shock over nothing but being impulsive, I grabbed a Moonstone Blue Stigmata when I found one. It just looked so nice.
For me, it was the Diverge or the Stigmata. I prefer the Future Shock over nothing but being impulsive, I grabbed a Moonstone Blue Stigmata when I found one. It just looked so nice.
#22
Senior Member
with Stigmata you are gaining about 20mm of front center, is that enough to avoid toe overlap? with Lauf you are gaining over 40mm, very unlikely to get any toe overlap even with huge 700c tires
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,268
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
288 Posts
Not sure if you still need the info on the toe overlap on a Stigmata... but, if you do, I just got a 2021 Stigmata. With a 56cm frame, 170mm cranks and size 9.5 shoes, there is no toe overlap whatsoever. Hope that helps...