smd4

Not true at all. There were plenty of Mercedes and BMWs around. Japanese consumer stuff in the 1970s was for the most part considered cheap crap--in much the same way Chinese goods are viewed today.

Mr. 66

I do have a top of the line from 1967. It’s like a Japanese Paramount. I thought it was English from first glance.

Was there bias of production, yes, but it was rooted with good reason. Cheaply made low priced products industry wide, not just bikes. Pots, pans, toys, cars, motorcycles. There just were not top line products of the sixties coming out of Japan. Engineering, or more importantly, tooling was not there in the sixties.

Much like the French and English, my 1967 Sannow is equipped 100% Campy, with Italian brand rims. They just didn’t have top line Japanese components, pot metal is what we called a lot of products of Japan into the 70’s.

By nature top of the line is scare.

Classtime 

America had no problem with Germany and got over it pretty quickly. You gotta acknowledge the racism.

smd4

So when you wrote, "our former adversaries," that really wasn't what you meant. In the 1970s, I only acknowledged crap merchandise from Japan.

MooneyBloke

And sadly, there were great marques in Japan at the time. Does the name Dave Grylls ring any bells? I remember photos of him tearing up the track (including a WC win) on a San Rensho. I think I've seen a few Zunows here including Bargo68's drop dead sexy white one.

MooneyBloke

Funny thing is that Japan produced some truly excellent optics in that era, and I think they were well recognized for that. Case in point: the 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 Super Multi Coated Takumars in M42 mount. That particular normal is fantastic by even modern standards.

smd4

Not everything was crap. In the model railroading hobby, in the 1970s through the 80s, the Japanese were the undisputed leader in handmade brass locomotive models. In the 1990s they priced themselves out of the market, and the Koreans took over. Now I think high-end models are made in China.

NVFlinch 

Actually the max # of Equipes is estimated at 150. Probably 50-100 in reality. Only made one batch, all shipped to the US in one sea contiainer. Previous to the Equipe as a warm up, there was an '83 'Cinelli Project' frame made for Centurion, as was the Equipe. Unsure of how many Project frames exist...I've got one.

But I digress. Now back to Japanese bikes. I've got one of those too. Why the Jones bars and barends? Because I could.

NVFlinch 

If you are referring to the 'Equipe' models from 1985, they were only made in the Chirico shop near Milan Italy, managed by Cinelli staff. Per my previous post, probably 50-100 were made in one run, then no more. They were primarily Ofmega equipped.

dddd

Yes, Ofmega and with Universal brakes, plus the Campag gearshift ensemble (sort of as on my Bianchi Nuovo Racing circa ~1981).

I'd guessed the production numbers were higher, but perhaps the California-based distributor WCCS sold most or all here in California?

And I'd forgotten/confused where the frames were actually cut, brazed and painted, I must have been thinking of Raleigh!

I've got a very large-framed Equipe just sitting, LBS unloaded it on me about 12 years ago and I had intended to put it on Ebay except that the box size was going to be problematic!
My local Post Office doesn't even seem to be able to measure a box properly, tried to over-charge me, but at least now we have Bike Flights.

NVFlinch 

Per my conversation with Robbie earlier this month:
" Chirico’s relationship with Cinelli goes back a ways. Chirico’s son apprenticed at Cinelli under their master frame builder. I think he was there about 12 years. Guild rules in Italy may have dictated who could be the master at Cinelli/Columbo during this time. Additional employees are very expensive in many Euro countries.

Chirico and his son patented a fork-making process in 1984, and many, many forks were made by them, both externality lugged (Equipe) and internally lugged (Project, SuperCorsa). Many other Italian builders simply had Chirico make their forks to spec. It was cheaper, and the forks were as good as anyone was making.

Alan Goldsmith went to Italy and negotiated the Equipe. It’s interesting to note that Cino Cinelli likely had met Goldsmithbefore, as Cino introduced him to Andreas. They made short work of the negotiations, and Goldsmith spent the next two weeks at Cino’s olive groves. Goldsmith’s last endeavor, that I know of, was advising Mike Sinyard at Specialized. He never understood what the fuss was about with the Ironman, but he was, above all, an opportunist who had a big impact behind the scenes of the US bike market.

My educated guess is that his Project project was done to convince Cino Cinelli to let him use the name. Cinelli was owned by the Columbo family by then, and the Equipe decals were quite restrictive re: the Cinelli logo, much as the Project was. Were there ever to be a Centurion museum of sorts, the Project and Equipe would have their own rooms, for sure. Cinelli also made a model for Lotus, I think.

1983-1986 were pretty outstanding years as far as quality bikes out of WSI/Centurion. The Turbo, the Comp TA and Project early, and then 1985’s Prestige, Equipe, Ironman, and then 1986’s Prestige, Facet, and redesigned Ironman. Even more significant was the next lower tier: Lemans, Lemans RS, Elite, Elite RS. Sales leaders hundreds less than the top models, Tange 2 only 2 oz heavier than Tange 1, and Shimano 600 components. For every Ironman you saw at a triathlon in those years, you saw 3-4 of those next tier models. [Note from Flinch: Only the Project and Equipe were built in Italy]

My mind scatters, as you can tell. If you have specific questions, I’ll do what I can. I’ve spoken with Goldsmith once, Andreas Cinelli once, but wasn’t trying to get much info at the time. I have one of the Cinelli nephew’s business cards around hee somewhere; he was in his 20’s when we met; likely 40’s by now."

Sorry to get off topic re Japanese bikes, but I'll throw a bone here: I also have some detailed info on the Centurion company history, including who built the different models, if anyone wants that posted.

cb400bill

Absolutely!

Lamont Cobb

I'm confused- how could it be made in Japan, and even have a Japanese name (Shogun), but be "technically" not Japanese?

OT I hear that this new Shogun TV series is pretty good.

BMC_Kid 

It’s official…

Insidious C. 

Perhaps it is I who was confused.

NVFlinch 

Centurion history
https://capovelo.com/centurion-bike-...bs-in-the-usa/

Generation X’s will remember the Centurion bike brand from the 1970’s, steel 10-speed rigs that were very nicely made, putting them on par with the European competition. But, save for some models that continued to be produced by a separate company in Germany for the European market, the brand disappeared from these shores in the late 1980’s. Since then, JMM Lee Properties has held the rights to the Centurion label, which is now putting it up for grabs for buyers seeking to capitalize on the current bike boom in the U.S.

“With new lines of bicycles hitting the market every year, customers look to familiar brands when making purchasing decisions,” said Michael Lee, JMM Lee managing partner. “As a consumer-trusted cycling name, Centurion retains significant brand value. As the cycling category grows, bicycle sellers are looking for recognized and respected brands for their new products,” Lee adds. “As an established and admired brand, Centurion offers the immediate customer recognition required for success in a competitive market.”

Centurion was created in 1969 by Mitchell (Mitch) M. Weiner and Junya (Cozy) Yamakoshi, who co-founded Western States Import Co. (WSI) in Canoga Park, California (initially Wil-Go Imports) to design, specify, distribute and market the bicycles. The bikes themselves were initially manufactured in Japan by companies including H. Teams Company of Kobe and later in Taiwan by companies including Merida. The Centurion brand was consolidated with WSI’s mountain bike brand DiamondBack in 1990. WSI ceased operations in 2000.

Centurion and WSI competed in the U.S. against domestic and European bicycle manufacturers including Schwinn, Raleigh, Peugeot, Gitane and Motobecane — as well as other nascent Japanese bicycle brands including Miyata, Fuji, Bridgestone, Panasonic, Univega, Lotusand Nishiki — itself a line of Japanese-manufactured bicycles that were specified, distributed and marketed by West Coast Cycles — a U.S. company similar to WSI. Japanese-manufactured bikes succeeded in the U.S. market until currency fluctuations in the late 1980s made them less competitive, leading companies to source bicycles from Taiwan.

WSI marketed the Centurion brand of road and touring bikes in the U.S. using the tag line “Where Centurion leads, others must follow” and “A Lifetime Bicycle“, offering a warranty without time limit. Additionally, for a brief period the bikes carried a “Centurion Bicycle Works” head-badge. According to bike historian, Frank J. Berto, Raleigh Industries of America had been looking at a Japanese source for their Grand Prix model. Raleigh America ordered 2,000 bicycles from Tano and Company of Osaka but their parent company in England, TI-Raleigh, disapproved — concerned that the Tano-built bikes were too well made and would have outsold their own British bikes.

Raleigh’s sales agent, Mitchell Weiner, who was reading The New Centurions at the time, took receipt of the bikes, placed Centurion decals on the bikes and marketed them successfully, subsequently forming Western State Imports after merging with Rick Wilson’s company, Wil-Go of Santa Clara, California. Because the bikes had all been intended as Raleigh Grand Prix models, as Centurions, they carried the colors of the Raleigh America Grand Prix model. Cozy Yamakoshi served as the company’s product development manager, designing the bike’s frames, coordinating the manufacture of the bikes by Japanese manufacturers, and importing the bikes into the US. Subsequently, around 1986, Centurion introduced their first Taiwanese built model, the Signet. The Cinelli Equipe Centurion of 1985 (only) was a joint-venture of WSI and Cinelli of Italy. [Flinch: Additionally, Centurion labelled "Cinelli Project" frames were produced in the Chirico shop near Milan, Italy, as a test of Italian/Centurion bike appetite in the U.S.]

Early bike sales were limited to the West Coast, with the brand receiving wider exposure by the late 1970s. WSI stopped using the Centurion brand name in 1990, consolidating their road and touring bikes under the Diamond Back (later DiamondBack) brand. While the brand Centurion had become well known, under the new brand name the company’s market for road and touring bicycles soon evaporated. Early Diamond Back models (ca. 1990) carried a top tube decal reading “Centurion Designed” and stickers near the bottom bracket reading “Designed in the USA” and “Exclusively built for WSI.” Diamondback Bicycles was eventually sold to Raleigh USA, and manufacture was moved to Taiwan.

WSI later opened an office in Van Nuys, California, and eventually maintained offices in Dallas, Texas, Denver, Colorado and Dayton, New Jersey — in addition a headquarters in Newbury Park, California. After Weiner died, the company continued its growth under the management of Mike Bobrick. Cozy Yamakoshi, product and development manager, worked with Mike Bobrick (Executive President of WSI) and Sandy Finkelman (1947–2005)(Diamond Back team manager and product development) and left Diamond Back in 1986, to start Parkpre Mountain Bike in 1989. Parkpre USA was based in Moorpark, Southern California, USA., producing bikes from the early 1990s until 1998. Ken Yamakoshi, son of Cozy Yamakoshi, is in the process of re-launching Parkpre in the U.S.

The rights to the brand name Centurion were sold to Germany’s Wolfgang Renner in 1991. Renner had imported Centurion to Germany since 1976, including made-extra models like the first German mountainbike “Country”. Today, Centurion remains as a German brand with design and engineering in-house. JMM Lee Properties is a worldwide brand owner and licensor of a portfolio of fashion, consumer electronics, and home appliance trademarks, including fMinolta, Bendix, AirTouch, Litton, Chambers and Slates.
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My Centurion/Cinelli 'Project frame', fork, and bike as built, plus ad from BIkeology 1983 catalog (Bikeology was a mail order shop that had lots of Centurion stuff. I'm sure that my frame is that exact frame in the catalog - well maybe). Posting this to clear up this uncommon frame so that it is not mixed in with Japanese made ones (or Mexican made - yep, some were made south of the border):





Lastly, the Centurion/Cinelli 'Equipe model'. Note two water bottle cages vs one on 'Project' frame, fork is external lugs, Project is internal, other small details...