Murray Missile 

I wanted to give a 1 X drivetrain a try so I bought one of those cheap 1 X 9 kits with the Sunrace 11-50t cassette, hanger extension, long cage 9 spd. Altus RD and 9 spd. Altus trigger shifter. The bike is a 2014 VooDoo Marasa frame and a 44t chainwheel. EVERYTHING on it is new including the frame. The cables are Jagwire with lined housings and the chain is a 116L KMC X9.

If I set it where I get clean smooth shifts from smallest to largest cog it hangs or skips over a cog in at least 2 spots sometimes 3 or 4 going back down. If I set it so it shifts smoothly going from largest to smallest it does the exact same thing going back up, if I can even get it to shift to the 2nd cog that is. I've run the B screw in as far as it will go without interference between the jockey wheel and the large cog, as far out as it will go with no change and all points in between. I have almost perfect alignment between the center cog and the chainwheel, the derailleur is in near perfect alignment, hanger is straight and I can't feel even the slightest drag on the shift cable when worked back and forth by hand. Hi and Lo stops put the top jockey wheel dead center over the big and small cogs. I've pulled the cable, housings, ferrules and the cable guide under the BB shell to check for anything that might cause drag and everything looks fine. No drag when sliding the housing over the cable and the the cable isn't rubbing anywhere. I'm not happy with the chain length though as the jockey arm is at about 4 o'clock with the chain on the large cog, I have a 126L Box chain on the way to take some tension off the jockey arm when on the 50t cog but I'm not optimistic that will help. I suspect the Altus derailleur may not have enough strength in the return spring to overcome the added friction from the large cogs so I have to put extra tension on the cable to go from small to large and it doen't have the strength to overcome it to go back down cleanly. Or not.

I think I've hit all the usual suspects, I've successfully done several 3X9's including 2 tandems and set a few hundred rear derailleurs over the years but never anything with more than 38 teeth on the large cog. Anyone see anything I've missed or had similar issues on a setup like this? If I can't make it work with the current hardware I have the pieces to make it a conventional 3X9 with a 12-28t cassette but I'd really like to try the 1X9 first to see if I like it or not.

Iride01 

RD-M2000?

Might be the b-screw adjustment. But since you are way over the max low sprocket for that RD which is 36 teeth, and using a hanger extender to be able to get there, you might not be able to adjust that out with the b-screw if that is where the issue is.

Largest is largest sprocket by tooth count or largest as in largest gear ratio?

Assuming you are going from the 50 tooth sprocket to smaller teeth sprockets when the trouble happens, that might also be the cable binding somewhere and not letting it out as fast as the lever completes the shift.

Oh, another possibility is that your RD hanger needs some alignment. Just because everything might be new doesn't mean it's all going to align correctly.

70sSanO

I have heard that some setups an extended derailleur hanger can have shifting issues, especially with smaller cogs.

My “guess” is the slant-parallelogram of your RD is designed to follow along a minimum/maximum max cog to maximum/minimum min cog path of the cassette. The further you divert from these design parameters the worse shifting can be.

I’m running RoadLinks on my mtb’s where the RD’s range is 11-34. I’m running 13-40 and it runs fine. If I ran an 11-46 it might have the same issue you are having.

John

Murray Missile 

Yes, it is an RD-M2000. As to your other questions I had addressed most of that in the original post but it will reach the large cog just fine, it's some of the cogs in between it doesn't play well with. If it upshifts fine then it acts up coming down, if I adjust it so it downshifts OK then it hangs on the upshifts and it takes a couple full turns of the trim adjuster to go from one to the other. I have assumed nothing just because everything was new, I was trying to avoid the inevitable "your XYZ is worn out replace it" responses. I have checked and rechecked all my alignments, by eyeball AND my Park alignment gauge the derailleur hanger is straight, with the chain on each cog the cog and both jockey wheels are in near perfect vertical alignment and I have checked ever millimeter of the cable and housings for any obstructions. My chainline is better than good, the middle cog and the chainwheel are in perfect alignment, it doesn't get any better than that. I believe it IS a friction issue but I can't see where it's the cable, with it disconnected I can slide it back and forth with virtually no drag and if I hold the derailleur end with light tension on it and work the shifter through all the gears in both directions I don't feel any drag or snags. When I cut the cable housing I file the ends flat and ream the end slightly so there are no sharp edges to catch on and it seats properly in the ferrules and stops, I also checked the openings in the ferrules for anything that could cause the cable to catch, nothing. I have removed the cable, housing, ferrules and BB guide 3 times to examine them. I do think it's a friction issue but I'm suspicious of the derailleur itself, it looks and feels just a little "sloppy" and there's a lot of derailleur cage hanging out there putting leverage on the pivots of the derailleur. Like I said in the original post I'm also not happy with the chain length as it has the cage pulled pretty far forward when on the large cog which would put additional pressure on the cage so I have a longer chain coming. BTW, I inspect aircraft safety systems for a living so I'm pretty confident that I haven't missed anything too obvious.

It could very well be that the Altus RD and shifter just aren't up to the job, it was a cheap kit after all and maybe I got exactly what I paid for. I can still go 3X9 or 1X9 with a less radical cassette and remove the hanger extension if I don't get it figured out. I'd probably be better off with a smaller large cog anyway, I'm not going to climb any cliffs with it after all.

Murray Missile 

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Thanks, that fits in with my "hunch" that it's the RD itself hanging up. If it is I'll pull the 11-50t cassette and do something else.

Duragrouch

I'm not the 1X expert, but sounds to me like the derailleur is a non-1X with a max cog size rating of 34. If so, it's not moving at the slope you need going from small to large cogs. If mounted normal, it won't be low enough to go on the largest cogs. If mounted lower (I think your kit included a part to do that), yes, then it may clear the large cogs but then when on the low cogs there is too much space between the upper RD pulley and the cogs, so you get imprecise shift response, the chain has too much lateral flex. (By the way, the same issues can plague a Dahon "compact" derailleur that mounts well forward of the rear axle, distance to cogs too great (in this case, horizontal instead of vertical), and it shifts poorly.) If the above is true, use a correct 1X RD that can handle that wide of a cassette range and max cog size.

Murray Missile 

"The chain has to much lateral flex" makes sense as well as the derailleur cage. I also have a 7 spd. Dahon that had the very issue you described. I put a long cage RD on it, an Acera IIRC, and it works great now but the cage hangs really close to the ground so I have to be mindful of tar strips and tall insects when riding it. It's my errand bike

I'm more inclined to reduce cassette range to something within the RD's range without the extension and call it a day. This was an experiment and I think it's safe to call this one a bust. I'll give the longer chain a try but I'm pretty sure it's not going to make much difference.

Thanks.

Duragrouch

I swapped out my Dahon RD for a Shimano Tourney TX with claw mount (no standard RD mount on my older frame), in GS (mid) length cage, not nearly as low as a long cage, and even so, had more than enough capacity when I went to a 2X crank, 50/34, huge improvement to the bike. Oh and that derailleur was $13 new at the LBS. Plus (as you know), it reversed shifting to "normal".

Murray Missile 

Mine is an early Stowaway. Originally a 6 speed but someone had put a 7 speed freewheel on it with the original 6 speed twist shifter. The freewheel was rusty and the shifter was looking pretty ratty. I had a 7 speed Mega Range freewheel, 7 speed trigger shifter and a long cage RD..... things quickly spiraled out of control from there LOL.


I've since gone to a different crank with a smaller chainwheel, this one never fit the BB right and the 53t was too much gear. I could pull it on the flats but I could get it going just a little too fast for the small wheels, short wheelbase and high center of gracvity and it would get very squirrely feeling.



Have an 11-36t cassette coming, Shimano is always conservative on their derailleur ranges.

Duragrouch

With my (same size) 20"/406 wheels, I need a big chainring, could not sacrifice top end to put a much smaller ring on there from the original 52. But I needed more low gear. 50/34 double and a front derailleur solved both, 50x11 is enough to pedal down mild grades, I don't need more than that but can't do with less. 34x30 is enough low, and that may be upgraded to 34x34 or 34x36 if I tour with big hills, though I really don't want bigger jumps than the current 11-30 7-speed.

You're right that Shimano is conservative, 36 will probably fit.

I agree about the bike stability. My wheelbase is actually equal or slightly greater than my old 700c racer (though shorter overall length). Assuming your frame joint is not loose, this is all steering. Mine doesn't feel unstable, but steering too "twitchy" for fast descents. I think my fork has low trail/caster, a Bike Friday I think has more. However, putting some weight forward of the steering axis on the fork or handlebars (so steered mass), will calm the steering a good deal, mass damping. Front rack, panniers, I also have clip-on aero bars with a drink bottle on them. Also on fast descent, if I steered much, the frame could get into a nasty left-right tilt-wobble, but only if standing; Seated, or standing (for more air drag) but with my thighs clamped around the seat, no wobble, my body becomes a mass damper. But also, my high rear rack and rear panniers and trunk bag full of tools and spares, also calmed that speed wobble, same reason, mass damping.

squirtdad

the altus has a specified max rear cog of 36 teeth https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ.../RD-M2000.html

so should work well with the ordered cassette

Duragrouch

Very similar to mine, looks like they upped both max cog and capacity by two teeth. They also went back to smaller pulleys, mine are noticeably larger.

Murray Missile 

Longer chain made zero difference in shifting...... as anticipated. Cassette is currently in USPS limbo.

Murray Missile 

11-36t cassette is on and works like a dream on the stand. Still have some other things to do on it before I can take it for a test ride.

Duragrouch

"I love it when a plan comes together." - Hannibal, The A-Team (I know, a stupid show, but it's a great line.)

Murray Missile 

I bet it will work even better once I pull the hanger extension out LOL, that hit me this morning that I forgot to pull it off. I have an emergency job (Grandson's Marin) on the stand right now or I'd have it done already. Hoping to get it back on there later today.

I use that quote all the time at work because their plans rarely come together LOL, I'm a sarcastic SOB.

Murray Missile 

Bike is done... and for sale, it rides nice but no better than any of my others, it's a bit on the small side and I'm in N-X mode so it goes. Just thought I'd post a pic of the finished product, "pics or it didn't happen...."