davidh60010

I am a newbie here, and I apologize if this isn't the place for this question. I am a decently serious road rider - I don't race on the road, but I like to ride hard, enjoy fast group rides (not all of them), and train for a small handful of off-road events. I am planning to buy a new road bike in the next 12 months, replacing a 2016 Trek Emonda SL 6. That has been a great bike, and it is reasonable to ask why I want to replace it. The reasons, in no particular order, include a desire for more modern features (disc brakes and wider wheel/tire sizes than the 23mm front/25mm rear on the Emonda); electronic shifting; and some version of the 7-year itch. I am looking to spend around $5,000. What I am amazed by are the listed or know weights of many of the bikes that fit my criteria. For example, a 2023 Trek Emonda SL6 Axs ($5,099) weighs north of 19 pounds, where as my 2016 Emonda is 16.7 lbs. I am familiar with the adage "strong. light. cheap; pick two." Hence my question - is it realistic to expect to find lighter bikes - in the 17 pound range -- at a ~$5,000 price point, or is this simply the way of the world at this point? How much should I expect to spend to get into that range?

urbanknight

Disc brakes are heavier
Wider rims and tires are heavier
I wouldn't be surprised if electronic shifting was heavier

No idea if that adds up to 2-3 lb, but have you upgraded anything on your Emonda to bring it down to 16.7? Wheels are an easy (but expensive) way to take weight off most off-the-shelf bikes.

tempocyclist

I don't think it's going to be realistic for you to find lighter bikes in your price point (or even in higher price points). There maybe a couple, and others may chime in with examples.

But on the whole, hydraulic disc brakes are heavier than rim brakes, plus most road bikes aren't designed to be super light as a big selling point like they used to be. Honestly, that couple of pounds will hardly make a difference. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

EDIT: Just checked the Canyon website, the Ultimate CF SLX 8 Di2 has a stated weight of 7.14 kg / 15.74 lbs. The SRAM eTap version is a little heavier. Probably "minus pedals" weight. Not sure what the price works out to in your area.

DOUBLE EDIT: Their top of the line Ultimate CFR Di2 has a stated weight of 6.32 kg / 14 lbs. Comes with a hefty price tag though!

Russ Roth

I wouldn't think it too unreasonable, my cross bike weights in at 19.8lb with pedals and a cage installed, while it was close to 5k it has a steel frame and deeper aluminum rims. My daughter's bike is 19.25lbs also with a steel frame and including pedals, cage and equipped with rival AXS. Seems reasonable that they should be lighter since I'd assume you're looking at a carbon frame at that price though from what I've seen you might not do much better than rival with electronic shifting

datlas 

Interesting to note that ultimate weight weenie builds still use CF frames from 10-15 years ago and SRAM Red mechanical group with rim brakes. You can fairly easily get under 15 pounds that way.

With disc brakes and electronic shifting, not so easy.

chaadster

Yeah, it’s going to be hard getting it all at the $5k pricepoint, bit you can do it with Canyon, and as a DTC brand on top of the game right now, they’re going to hard to beat.

In USA, the Ultimate CF SL 8 Disc Di2 (Ultegra) is $4k and 17.5lbs (size M I believe) with a 1660g wheelset.

For an additional $1.3k, you could shave 300g or more on a pair of Winspace Hyper 33 wheels, bringing the bike under 17lbs.

So the Canyon with Winspace wheels, all in with shipping and tax should be under $6k and weigh, for the M, 16.9lbs.

phrantic09

I’m about 6500 in on my Aspero to have 18.5 pounds and electronic shifting. MSRP was 4500 - it came with 32mm carbon rims and GRX 810 mechanical. This is with 460g tires.

Ive since installed a Force / Rival AXS mix which cost me about 1600- it didn’t really take any weight off, but I also don’t care or notice the difference between my 16 pound R3 or my 18 pound Aspero.

With my road wheels (Zipp 303S) it’s about 3/4 of a pound lighter. Mostly attributed to the tires.

msu2001la

I'm not surprised that a 2023 Emonda SL6 with disc brakes, 12sp Rival AXS and 28mm tires weighs a few lbs more than a 2016 Emonda SL6 with 11sp Ultegra (I'm assuming) mechanical shifting, rim brakes and 23/25mm tires.

Disc brakes are partly to blame, but you're also comparing Rival AXS to Ultegra mechanical. I think the SL7 (12sp Ultegra Di2) is more comparable to your 2016 SL6, and that bike is 17.1lbs, so maybe a half pound penalty for an additional gear, electronic shifting, hydro brakes and a more aero frame? It's $6200 though. Trek does sell an 11sp Ultegra mechanical version of the SL6 - I'm not sure what the weight is on that, but I'm sure lighter than the Rival build - but of course you're giving up one of the main upgrades you seek, so this doesn't make sense.

Sy Reene

You might get close with Specialized Aethos Comp (Rival AXS).. reviews put it at about 17-18lbs depending on frame size. MSRP of $5200.

surak

Even $12k+ World Tour pro bikes are regularly within a lb of your 17 lbs goal. Speed matters more than weight -- aero frame shaping, better brakes, lower rolling resistance from wider tires all trade weight for speed.

Last I looked most sub-$6k complete bikes still came with not-great wheels. That's the easiest area to shed weight without losing speed, but adds another $1-2k to a budget.

ratell

The other thing to consider is aero advantages. Current bikes are willing to be heavier to be more aero. It also means that a bike may be heavier than your current bike and still faster.

Mojo31

Emonda SL7 for just a bit over $6k gets you into the 17 pound range. Groupset is Ultegra Di2.

DaveSSS 

I never buy a complete bike because many of the components would be replaced to fit my needs. I built-up two Yoeleo R12 frames last year, with SRAM AXS. The cheapest version is Rival, but I use all Force level. The complete bikes weigh about 18 pounds. I always urge buyers to consider their own body weight when building a bike. If you carry 5-10 or more pounds of excess weight, it's just as important as bike weight. I can get down to 132 pounds or 60kg, but this time of year I'm 4-5 pounds heavier. I'm sold on BTLOS wheels that cost about $800. I buy 25mm internal width hookless rims with no spoke holes, so no rim tape is required. They allow me to run 52-55 psi with 28mm tires. Unfortunately, Yoeleo frame prices have gone up from the $1215 that I paid for a frame with seat post and integrated handlebars and what was considered custom paint. The current price is $1590, or $1890 with custom paint. These frames are well built and the paint jobs I got were very well done. I really like the fact that the frame will easily handle 32mm tires, if desired.
​​​​
A Rival level bike can still be built for well under $5k. Force might exceed $5k slightly.

https://www.yoeleobike.com/

https://btlos.com/ar-clincher-hook-less-carbon-wheels

SoSmellyAir

I used to also think this, but a while ago, I compared two Canyon Endurace CF SL bikes, both with Ultegra hydraulic disc brakes and 11 speed drivetrains (mechanical vs. Di2), and to my surprise the Di2 is lighter. While the battery is heavy, so are shift cables and housings. Canyon USA no longer sells the 11-speed Di2 version, but the 12-speed Di2 version is only 0.06 kg heavier than its 11-speed mechanical counterpart.

Bob Ross

Last month I met a guy on a club ride who was sporting a ridiculously light bike: His claim was 10lbs, 6oz. and after he let me lift it up -- with my pinkie finger, mind you -- I have no reason to doubt him.
Germane to your comment though: It was a brand new (2022) Cannondale SuperSix EVO frame, with SRAM Red AXS (or whatever the current 12-speed electronic eTap group is called).
He joked that he could have gotten it down to 10lbs, 1oz. if he'd gone with a mechanical group, but he preferred the way eTap works.

But yeah, rim brakes. By THM iirc.

As far as OP's quest though... he said it would have retailed for well over $20k if he hadn't cashed in some "favors" from the parts vendors.

Spandex_fairy

I got my 2021 sl5 emonda to ~16.5lbs It cost ~$5k to get there (@ 2021 pricing)

Jughed

Listed weight of my Emonda ALR5 is 19.5#. Not far off from the lower spec CF Emonda.

Researching weight savings right now - $600 for a set of Hunt 34’s saves 1.5#’s, some tubeless Conti’s, better disc rotors and Ultegra cassette is close to 2#’s off the bike for about $800.

Stock wheels on these bikes are heavy.

davidh60010

Thanks all for your feedback. In the main my expectations are not entirely realistic, but there are some possibilities at the margins. It's helpful to understand the weight trade-off in context - the aero and comfort things (wider wheels, bigger tires) come at a price. Good stuff to think about!

Iride01 

When you look at the manufacturer's weight spec, for the few that even list it, remember that is for a specific size frame and the components on that particular and exact model. So if you ride a different size then that weight might be more or less.

msu2001la

Was he weighing the bike without wheels? The frame and groupset alone have a combined weight of 8.3lbs.

Standard-modulus rim brake SuperSix Evo size 56 painted = 1506 grams. (3.32lbs)
2020 Cannondale SuperSix Evo first-ride review: Now with a dose of aero - CyclingTips

Red AXS 2x rim brake groupset = 2254 grams (4.97lbs)
New SRAM Red eTap AXS 12-Speed Road Groupset – Ten Things to Know (bikeexchange.com)

Bob Ross

No, he had some swanky wheelset with ENVE rims and Tune hubs that clocked in at just over 700g for the pair.

Calsun

Even high end road bikes are shipping with rims that can take 38mm tires and I would bet that most of the extra weight of new bikes is from heavier wheels. My 20 year old CF Trek 5200 bike weighs only 17.2 lbs but it has Rolf Vector Comp wheels with 700x23c tires. The only other difference with the Trek and a current bike is that it has caliper brakes. The Trek wheels with their clincher tires are quite a bit heavier than my touring bike with its tubular rims and tires.

Good study of wheels and their weights

https://www.cyclistshub.com/road-bik...ls-statistics/

msu2001la

I was curious as to what the stock wheelset on a Trek 5200 was, and came across this hilarious on-topic thread from 2005 of people complaining about their Trek carbon bikes weighing 18-20lbs:
Trek 5200 - 20 pounds? | Road Bike, Cycling Forums (roadbikereview.com)

I think it's possible that OEM wheels on today's disc brake bikes are built a little more robust than what would've come on a bike in 2005. Disc brakes are more to blame here more than rim widths I think, though you are correct that wider tires are also a little heavier than the 21-23mm tires we used to run.

EDIT: There are also a lot of other differences between a 2005 Trek 5200 and something like a Trek Emonda. In addition to disc brakes and wider tires, the new bike has several more gears and also wider/aero shaped tubing that is likely heavier than the narrow round tubes used 20 years ago. The new bike is also considerably faster with these changes.

t2p

lol one guy complaining about the weight has a triple crankset installed (w steel / square taper cartridge BB) and a 12-27 Ultegra cassette

t2p

more gears does not appear to be responsible for weight gain - and in fact might be more responsible in some cases for weight loss ... at the high end at least

the upper end Shimano 11 speed cassettes weigh less when compared to the early 7 and 8 speed stuff - and close to the 9 speed stuff