Why does every bike shop sell the same two bikes?
10-08-23, 07:10 PM
#76
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They are "better" for certain reasons.
My tool collection doesn't consist of 1 claw hammer. I've a framing hammer, a finish hammer, multiple mini sledge , different weights, multiple ball peens hammers different weights, a leather hammer, a dead blow hammer, a brass hammer, a plastic tip hammer.
But seriously why even own a hammer if I can simply smash things with a ratchet.
Bicycles are tools. Use the correct one for the job, not the one that is trending at the moment.
Most of us have compromised. Like the guy that tours once a year, but then rides his LHT (unloaded) the rest of the year. I personally would dislike riding an unloaded touring bike. I'd love to own and ride a Kona sultra LtD, if it was offered in a lighter version.
Same as with the niner air one 9 rigid, if it was slacked out a bit more.
Do we really need 12 speed cassettes and then do stupid stuff to fix the chain line issues? No we dont. Except we have an industry that creates a demand for 12 speeds.
My x7/x9 combo 2x10 was flawless, dependable and durable. Now Sram has issues! Not durable, not dependable, super flaky with cable tension. But it's the standard they push. So is 12 speed better. In some ways yes, in many ways it isn't. On a whole I don't think the better side of it out weighs the bad side of it. Not on a mtb anyways.
I've ridden all over CO rockies on a 32t 11-36, 1x10 hardtail. I was wanting a slacker hardtail years before the industry offered it. Now the industry pushes it. To the extreme even, now we just twiddle our thumbs until they come to their senses and find the middle ground. Some manufactures will, some never will.
Now they will try and push the 750 wheel size.
The 650b craze hit. They pushed the "it's better",but it wasn't good enough. So they made biggerc650b, until they got sluggish, so now its back to 29 and 2.4 /2.6. They yoyo.
And use shills like bike radar, bike rumor to push the new stuff regardless of it being good or bad.
99 out of 100 people buying bikes don't even know what they are buying outside of it have 2 wheels.
Kind of like your version of better. You thought it was one thing, then thought it was another thing.
Your "better", along with many other peoples version is fluid.
While some of us, don't see it that way.
Its the world we live in.
I want is my 1990s rigid flat bar fitness/hybrid. But with disc brakes, clearance for 29x 2.4. 20 -22 lbs. And a bit of a slack HA.
People buy Walmart bikes, then they don't ride them. Not very enjoyable, lots of energy spent to go nowhere. Apply the same thing to current hybrid/fitness bikes. If people on current hybrids road a high end hybrid, they'd probably ride a lot more than they do.
Well that was true 3.5 years ago.
The industry can't even push entry level budget bicycles right now. The industry is in trouble with this economy. They are sitting on heaps of bikes they cant move.
The people want electric with throttles, food delivered to them, and a weekly allowance.
It is "better" though...
My tool collection doesn't consist of 1 claw hammer. I've a framing hammer, a finish hammer, multiple mini sledge , different weights, multiple ball peens hammers different weights, a leather hammer, a dead blow hammer, a brass hammer, a plastic tip hammer.
But seriously why even own a hammer if I can simply smash things with a ratchet.
Bicycles are tools. Use the correct one for the job, not the one that is trending at the moment.
Most of us have compromised. Like the guy that tours once a year, but then rides his LHT (unloaded) the rest of the year. I personally would dislike riding an unloaded touring bike. I'd love to own and ride a Kona sultra LtD, if it was offered in a lighter version.
Same as with the niner air one 9 rigid, if it was slacked out a bit more.
Do we really need 12 speed cassettes and then do stupid stuff to fix the chain line issues? No we dont. Except we have an industry that creates a demand for 12 speeds.
My x7/x9 combo 2x10 was flawless, dependable and durable. Now Sram has issues! Not durable, not dependable, super flaky with cable tension. But it's the standard they push. So is 12 speed better. In some ways yes, in many ways it isn't. On a whole I don't think the better side of it out weighs the bad side of it. Not on a mtb anyways.
I've ridden all over CO rockies on a 32t 11-36, 1x10 hardtail. I was wanting a slacker hardtail years before the industry offered it. Now the industry pushes it. To the extreme even, now we just twiddle our thumbs until they come to their senses and find the middle ground. Some manufactures will, some never will.
Now they will try and push the 750 wheel size.
The 650b craze hit. They pushed the "it's better",but it wasn't good enough. So they made biggerc650b, until they got sluggish, so now its back to 29 and 2.4 /2.6. They yoyo.
And use shills like bike radar, bike rumor to push the new stuff regardless of it being good or bad.
99 out of 100 people buying bikes don't even know what they are buying outside of it have 2 wheels.
Kind of like your version of better. You thought it was one thing, then thought it was another thing.
Your "better", along with many other peoples version is fluid.
While some of us, don't see it that way.
Its the world we live in.
I want is my 1990s rigid flat bar fitness/hybrid. But with disc brakes, clearance for 29x 2.4. 20 -22 lbs. And a bit of a slack HA.
People buy Walmart bikes, then they don't ride them. Not very enjoyable, lots of energy spent to go nowhere. Apply the same thing to current hybrid/fitness bikes. If people on current hybrids road a high end hybrid, they'd probably ride a lot more than they do.
Well that was true 3.5 years ago.
The industry can't even push entry level budget bicycles right now. The industry is in trouble with this economy. They are sitting on heaps of bikes they cant move.
The people want electric with throttles, food delivered to them, and a weekly allowance.
It is "better" though...
“Old man yells at clouds”
10-08-23, 07:49 PM
#77
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Back to the touring bike thing. You're looking at the wrong time of year. The manufacturers who make touring bikes make a batch every year, and they tend to hit the bike shops in March or April. Go shopping then and you've got a much better chance of finding one on the showroom floor.
Or, as mentioned, go custom. Bilenky.com, co-motion.com, rodbikes.com, etc. One or more will entertain your Rohloff, flat bar, even (gasp!) recumbent if you really want to lean back. Of course, since (as mentioned) a Rohloff wheel will set you back a couple grand, don't expect it to be cheap. (May as well get a SON dyno hub on the front while you're at it.)
Or, as mentioned, go custom. Bilenky.com, co-motion.com, rodbikes.com, etc. One or more will entertain your Rohloff, flat bar, even (gasp!) recumbent if you really want to lean back. Of course, since (as mentioned) a Rohloff wheel will set you back a couple grand, don't expect it to be cheap. (May as well get a SON dyno hub on the front while you're at it.)
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10-08-23, 08:38 PM
#78
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The overall group mentality here seems to be that any bike that isn't a 12-speed, drop bar road bike (or some slight variation of that) designed for weekend "sport" riding with lycra and cleats is a "niche" product. And that I should find it perfectly reasonable, both for myself and for anyone new to cycling or looking to get into it for reasons other than those prescribed by the typical bike shop's aforementioned selection, to "suck it up" and have a bike custom-ordered and/or custom-built (the newcomers especially will love this) rather than "crying for the bike fairy" to show me a second kind of bike. Got it.
I'm glad that I came to a public forum for cyclists to raise my concerns about the COMICALLY unvarying bike selections I've been seeing and to learn that it is the work of gifted minds far greater than my own. Now I know. It was foolish and, frankly, self-centered of me to want to see other types of bicycles stocked in stores. I thought it was irresponsible and disingenuous for a shop-owner to expect a layman to draw an informed conclusion from staring at a wall of matchy-matchy bikes. I sure was a fool! Clearly, the conclusion has already been drawn for them, and they need only be fitted for lycra! Thank you! This is the way!
I'm glad that I came to a public forum for cyclists to raise my concerns about the COMICALLY unvarying bike selections I've been seeing and to learn that it is the work of gifted minds far greater than my own. Now I know. It was foolish and, frankly, self-centered of me to want to see other types of bicycles stocked in stores. I thought it was irresponsible and disingenuous for a shop-owner to expect a layman to draw an informed conclusion from staring at a wall of matchy-matchy bikes. I sure was a fool! Clearly, the conclusion has already been drawn for them, and they need only be fitted for lycra! Thank you! This is the way!
By Definition, a product which only a very small percentage of the buying public wants to buy is "niche" product. it is what the term means. Nobody said anything about weekends or lycra or cleats----those are YOUR prejudices. Thanks for showing your bad side.
The sad part is that people told you the truth and you are unable to accept it.
It is pretty clear you have never tired to run a business and particularly never tried retail sales. It is also obvious that you refuse to accept that you are ignorant about a lot of things, and also refuse to learn.
The more loudly you pitch your tantrum the more idiotic you look.
Go outside and shout at clouds. Call everyone sheep for thinking the world is round, or call us cowards for not resisting the Law of Gravity ... "It isn't a real law! it isn't in a law book!"
Bike shops want to stay in business. You want to be a sharp, sudden pull or tug. Success all around. Oh, happy day!
I have toured and commuted in cleats and on flat pedals, and I have commuted in Lycra. Pretty much everything in your post is inaccurate, dishonest, or the product of sustained willful ignorance.
Here is the bottom line-----Since you know better than everyone how a bike shop should be run .... go start a bike shop. Stock whatever you think needs to be sold.
Good luck.
The sad part is that people told you the truth and you are unable to accept it.
It is pretty clear you have never tired to run a business and particularly never tried retail sales. It is also obvious that you refuse to accept that you are ignorant about a lot of things, and also refuse to learn.
The more loudly you pitch your tantrum the more idiotic you look.
Go outside and shout at clouds. Call everyone sheep for thinking the world is round, or call us cowards for not resisting the Law of Gravity ... "It isn't a real law! it isn't in a law book!"
Bike shops want to stay in business. You want to be a sharp, sudden pull or tug. Success all around. Oh, happy day!
I have toured and commuted in cleats and on flat pedals, and I have commuted in Lycra. Pretty much everything in your post is inaccurate, dishonest, or the product of sustained willful ignorance.
Here is the bottom line-----Since you know better than everyone how a bike shop should be run .... go start a bike shop. Stock whatever you think needs to be sold.
Good luck.
I understand that the bike selection is driven by capitalism. I'm not an idiot, as you so winningly implied. The point that I'm making (and which you and the majority of the posters keep glossing over) is this:
It is reasonable to assume that there are many ways someone may wish to cycle. So, by extension, the very constrained selection of bikes found in the typical shop is therefore unreasonable.
You can flail your arms and cry "money" and "capitalism" all you want, but appealing to a fallacious, abstract system does NOT excuse the unreasonable nature of the shops I've visited.
Which raises another question...why are so many posters here eager to defend a vapid market which is seemingly indifferent to the marginilization of many riders or to potentially misleading new riders? What would anyone here have to gain from it?
(And, by the way....the bulk of my last post was sarcastic.)
10-08-23, 09:05 PM
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Being lectured by a newbie on how the bicycle industry should work never gets old.
10-08-23, 09:31 PM
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I skipped a couple of pages, so maybe this has been posted (or the discussion changed)
Here is a link listing Rohloff hubbed bikes suitable for touring. German, Dutch, Swiss, Spanish bikes.
List of Rohloff Bike Models For Touring and Bikepacking - CyclingAbout.
2020 publishing date, so anybody still selling these models found markets for this niche product.
Getting them to USA affordably may limit availability.
Here's an example, maybe close to what OP wants, or wanted back on page #1. USA builder.
ChapmanCycles.com - flat bars, Rohloff, touring
Co-Motion offer Pangea in 26"wheels, handlebar options, Rohloff option, touring oriented
Pangea - Co-Motion Cycles
Here is a link listing Rohloff hubbed bikes suitable for touring. German, Dutch, Swiss, Spanish bikes.
List of Rohloff Bike Models For Touring and Bikepacking - CyclingAbout.
2020 publishing date, so anybody still selling these models found markets for this niche product.
Getting them to USA affordably may limit availability.
Here's an example, maybe close to what OP wants, or wanted back on page #1. USA builder.
ChapmanCycles.com - flat bars, Rohloff, touring
Co-Motion offer Pangea in 26"wheels, handlebar options, Rohloff option, touring oriented
Pangea - Co-Motion Cycles
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Last edited by Wildwood; 10-08-23 at 09:49 PM.
10-08-23, 09:39 PM
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Your rant feels manufactured, or perhaps borne of ignorance.
Last edited by Koyote; 10-08-23 at 09:42 PM.
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10-08-23, 09:42 PM
#82
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I have only read part of this thread, but for the information of the OP, Surly is made by QBP, which doesn't do franchise arrangements, as they are mostly a bicycle parts distributor. So they sell to EVERY STORE IN THE COUNTRY. EVERY LBS is a Surly dealer if they want to be, and if they don't stock what you want, they can order it.
They also make All-City bikes, but sadly they will soon be discontinuing this line soon.
And they make Salsa's too.
It does seem like it is easier to complain than to find solutions, though....
They also make All-City bikes, but sadly they will soon be discontinuing this line soon.
And they make Salsa's too.
It does seem like it is easier to complain than to find solutions, though....
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10-08-23, 10:30 PM
#83
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To say that I'm here "lecturing" you only serves to point out your own insecurity about the topic. I also didn't realize I needed to make 1000 posts before voicing any observations about the bicycle industry. Was that your point? Or did you not have one?
10-08-23, 10:39 PM
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10-08-23, 10:41 PM
#85
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I have only read part of this thread, but for the information of the OP, Surly is made by QBP, which doesn't do franchise arrangements, as they are mostly a bicycle parts distributor. So they sell to EVERY STORE IN THE COUNTRY. EVERY LBS is a Surly dealer if they want to be, and if they don't stock what you want, they can order it.
They also make All-City bikes, but sadly they will soon be discontinuing this line soon.
And they make Salsa's too.
It does seem like it is easier to complain than to find solutions, though....
They also make All-City bikes, but sadly they will soon be discontinuing this line soon.
And they make Salsa's too.
It does seem like it is easier to complain than to find solutions, though....
And I am not here to complain rather than find solutions. I'm well aware I can walk into a shop and order bikes or components. Those solutions don't inherently invalidate the concerns I raised (nor do any of the really clever replies lazily quoting a tired, old Simpsons meme.).
10-08-23, 10:49 PM
#86
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I did not know that, and that explains why the shops I've found to be All-City dealers are also Surly dealers.
And I am not here to complain rather than find solutions. I'm well aware I can walk into a shop and order bikes or components. Those solutions don't inherently invalidate the concerns I raised (nor do any of the really clever replies lazily quoting a tired, old Simpsons meme.).
And I am not here to complain rather than find solutions. I'm well aware I can walk into a shop and order bikes or components. Those solutions don't inherently invalidate the concerns I raised (nor do any of the really clever replies lazily quoting a tired, old Simpsons meme.).
Edit: "Solutions" does not mean changing the way the bike industry works - good luck with that. It means educating yourself about how the bike industry works so that you can get what you want and need with less friction and dissatisfaction.
Last edited by MinnMan; 10-08-23 at 10:52 PM.
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10-08-23, 10:51 PM
#87
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in·fer·ence
/ˈinf(ə)rəns/
noun
As evidenced by your useless attempt to enter the thread, take a passing jab at me, then exit the thread...having contributed absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.
/ˈinf(ə)rəns/
noun
- a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.
As evidenced by your useless attempt to enter the thread, take a passing jab at me, then exit the thread...having contributed absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.
10-08-23, 11:14 PM
#88
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That's good to hear, but you should expect that people will react to your posts in proportion to the volume of pixels you spend on complaining versus discussing solutions. I suggest that you take the flak you are getting as a message about how you are being perceived. If you didn't want to be perceived that way, you might consider a different tone.
Edit: "Solutions" does not mean changing the way the bike industry works - good luck with that. It means educating yourself about how the bike industry works so that you can get what you want and need with less friction and dissatisfaction.
Edit: "Solutions" does not mean changing the way the bike industry works - good luck with that. It means educating yourself about how the bike industry works so that you can get what you want and need with less friction and dissatisfaction.
I get what you meant by solutions. My issue is with the industry as a whole and I would like to see it changed. Which, my only means of affecting that kind of change is by withholding my money from these shops and by expressing my dissatisfaction to others in the community.
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10-08-23, 11:16 PM
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I get what you meant by solutions. My issue is with the industry as a whole and I would like to see it changed. Which, my only means of affecting that kind of change is by withholding my money from these shops and by expressing my dissatisfaction to others in the community.
What kind of riding do you want to do, even?
10-08-23, 11:24 PM
#90
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Well, my original intent was merely to vent about something really annoying that happened to me yesterday. And I typically only have three tones...sarcastic, cynical, and sneering (lol). But, you're right. I do need to take some classes in debate and public speaking.
I get what you meant by solutions. My issue is with the industry as a whole and I would like to see it changed. Which, my only means of affecting that kind of change is by withholding my money from these shops and by expressing my dissatisfaction to others in the community.
I get what you meant by solutions. My issue is with the industry as a whole and I would like to see it changed. Which, my only means of affecting that kind of change is by withholding my money from these shops and by expressing my dissatisfaction to others in the community.
The chief victim of your ire appears to be you.
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10-08-23, 11:31 PM
#91
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I don't know what the OP is on about. Every bike shop I can think of has a few bikes for every type of paying customer or the know-how to send that non-customer to where they can get their needs met.
Maybe the OP hasn't noticed but the majority of bikes sold are the run-of-of-the-mill, utilitarian, recreational commuter variety for the budget conscious or "unsure" new buyer. Also true: The majority of miles actually ridden in an expeditious manner (& hence seen by the OP) are the lycra-clad, cleat wearing, drop-bar road variety.
That the OP's needs are not met says more about his/her knowledge of the bicycle world than anything.
Every Giant dealer carries Momentum. Every Trek shop carries a Loft or an FX. Every Specialized dealer has a Sirrus or Roll. How about a Linus? Why not a Public? Why not Soma or Rivendell or anyone of a million other brands?
I swear. Reading between the lines, I see jealousy. "Mr. Fancybiken with the pot-belly rides faster than me because crabon plastique cost $15,000. WHINE!!!"
No. Mr. Fancybiken is faster because he is better at bikes than you. He'd be faster on an Omafiets, if he chose to than you on a Bennotti Vial EVO because he's just better at bikes than you. Simple as that. How do you know Mr. 12mph crabon plastique isn't also 76 years old & recovering from a punish pass that shattered his elbow 6 weeks ago? Or maybe he's 57, recovering from a wicked bad bypass & his blood meds make it so his heart won't go anymore? (Both examples are true, BTW)
It's not about the bike. It never is. Get educated & get over it.
Maybe the OP hasn't noticed but the majority of bikes sold are the run-of-of-the-mill, utilitarian, recreational commuter variety for the budget conscious or "unsure" new buyer. Also true: The majority of miles actually ridden in an expeditious manner (& hence seen by the OP) are the lycra-clad, cleat wearing, drop-bar road variety.
That the OP's needs are not met says more about his/her knowledge of the bicycle world than anything.
Every Giant dealer carries Momentum. Every Trek shop carries a Loft or an FX. Every Specialized dealer has a Sirrus or Roll. How about a Linus? Why not a Public? Why not Soma or Rivendell or anyone of a million other brands?
I swear. Reading between the lines, I see jealousy. "Mr. Fancybiken with the pot-belly rides faster than me because crabon plastique cost $15,000. WHINE!!!"
No. Mr. Fancybiken is faster because he is better at bikes than you. He'd be faster on an Omafiets, if he chose to than you on a Bennotti Vial EVO because he's just better at bikes than you. Simple as that. How do you know Mr. 12mph crabon plastique isn't also 76 years old & recovering from a punish pass that shattered his elbow 6 weeks ago? Or maybe he's 57, recovering from a wicked bad bypass & his blood meds make it so his heart won't go anymore? (Both examples are true, BTW)
It's not about the bike. It never is. Get educated & get over it.
Last edited by base2; 10-09-23 at 12:21 AM.
10-09-23, 01:00 AM
#92
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I visited a new-to-me shop today, hoping to see some cool bikes or gear. But, that didn't happen. They were stocked with the same 100 iterations of the drop bar road bike that every shop seems to carry. The same inflexible fleet of impractical bikes. Boring. Useless.
Is it even possible to find a shop with a selection of utility bikes? Fixies? Touring bikes? Even a single touring bike??? Because I have never, EVER managed to walk into a shop with a single, solitary touring bike on hand. They're mythical bikes that exist only if you believe in them enough, apparently.
Is it even possible to find a shop with a selection of utility bikes? Fixies? Touring bikes? Even a single touring bike??? Because I have never, EVER managed to walk into a shop with a single, solitary touring bike on hand. They're mythical bikes that exist only if you believe in them enough, apparently.
10-09-23, 05:08 AM
#93
Senior Member
Oh boy, now consumers are being "marginalized" by lack of desired bicycle selection in a bike shop. I think I'm gonna take up drinking alcohol as I can't take this anymore.
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10-09-23, 06:11 AM
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10-09-23, 06:18 AM
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10-09-23, 06:26 AM
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Good luck finding your fixed gear Rohloff flat bar touring bike that you can ride with your hands off the bars. (As someone with more than a little touring experience under his belt, I can say that that last part of your master plan is not the best idea unless you are riding on a very smooth, flat surface.)
10-09-23, 06:42 AM
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"The market" seems to be trending toward less diversity and more conformity. The fewer models they design and manufacture, the more money they save. However, some brands focus on the type of bike you've mentioned. Try to find a Salsa, Ridley or Kona dealer. It might not be easy, but it should be worth it. Myself, I'd look for a used Dawes Super Galaxy for $200.00 and call it a day.
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10-09-23, 06:45 AM
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Your style and combativeness suggests a sock ...
10-09-23, 06:50 AM
#99
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"The market" seems to be trending toward less diversity and more conformity. The fewer models they design and manufacture, the more money they save. However, some brands focus on the type of bike you've mentioned. Try to find a Salsa, Ridley or Kona dealer. It might not be easy, but it should be worth it. Myself, I'd look for a used Dawes Super Galaxy for $200.00 and call it a day.
10-09-23, 06:51 AM
#100
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Based on a recent trip to the local shop I'd say that is total nonsense. I saw lots of diversity. Maybe the diversity just isn't all the stuff you want to see. Why is that? Most likely because it isn't what the shop can actually sell to their customers.