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Old 06-04-21, 01:45 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I'd love to see someone 3D print an insert to shift a Shimano 6-speed UG freewheel with a first-gen Ergo lever.

Not because anyone asked, but because it'd just be wonderfully wacky.

-Kurt
As long as you use a Shimano SIS rear derailleur, there's no need to change or add anything.

6-speed block with 9-speed Ergo:

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Old 06-04-21, 01:52 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I think you're totally wrong... Like you said- when I was a kid there were oldies stations, top 40 stations and there were rock stations- then there were "classic rock" stations and the stuff that was classic rock migrated to that/those stations. The rock stations kind of had the new 'metal-y' stuff as well as your "get the Led out" stuff... As things have aged- the classic rock stuff is greatly becoming what the "oldies" stations were... on the way out. Then the "new rock" "alternative" stations popped up... and either died or morphed into whatever Clear Channel or iHeart wants them to play. I like to think the music I grew up on was awesome and the musicians were all awesome and badass... Yes, there are kids that are into the Beatles and Zeppelin and Stones and stuff... but... that stuff is aging out. The music the kids are all into changes so fast and it's really not on terrestrial radio and it's all driven by forces you don't even know, man.
Sure, it's aging out, but it's still called classic rock.

Anecdotally, my 20 year old daughter is really into Pink Floyd, but she and I disagree over whether or not The Division Bell is classic. She thinks it is. I think it's what happens when a band (or some members thereof) don't know when to quit. She also likes Hall and Oates, so I feel like her credibility is weak. I think this is still tracking, very loosely, to the bike situation.
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Old 06-04-21, 05:03 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
Personally, I think anything at least 20 years old classifies as classic, and at this point in the timeline anything made before 1985 is vintage, regardless of what kind of components are currently adorning it.
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
I think by its nature, the definition of 'classic' will drift with the passage of time.
All in the eyes of the beholder. I've never really thought of it, but while for some reason I look at the vintage cutoff being 30 years, others certainly see it differently. And classic is even a muddier line I suppose. Bike boom bikes like I have hanging in my garage easily fell into vintage by that yardstick but I've never seen them as classics. But I have a couple of Takaras I guess are classic examples of vintage bike boom bikes now that I consider it differently.

I couldn't understand why some people were so for or against this new forum but I suppose it may stem from these interpretations of classic and vintage and their passion for bicycles spilling over into it. Riding what you love and loving what you ride is why most people read the C&V forums and keep it active.
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Old 06-04-21, 05:51 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Sure, it's aging out, but it's still called classic rock.

Anecdotally, my 20 year old daughter is really into Pink Floyd, but she and I disagree over whether or not The Division Bell is classic. She thinks it is. I think it's what happens when a band (or some members thereof) don't know when to quit. She also likes Hall and Oates, so I feel like her credibility is weak. I think this is still tracking, very loosely, to the bike situation.
I think it follows quite well to bikes- "Old" is relative. Whether it's called "classic rock" or "oldies" is irrelevant- it's what old people listen to.

Several years ago- I was watching a movie with Jamie Gertz in it- she was friends with a 21-ish girl. She was bagging on the young girl for taking home a "grunge era leftover." It sounded like a creepy old dinosaur. And it hit me- I'm that "grunge era" old. I'm the equivalent of that goofy old guy dancing around to Jan and Dean in the metal shop when I was 22. Yeah, he was a big, gruff guy, he was a biker, I'm sure when he was younger he was a big scary biker guy- but he was old and loved old people music. He's probably in an assisted living facility- being awful to the caregivers and cranking up Jan and Dean really loud thinking he's a badass. No matter how "cool," "hip" or "with it" you think you are... you're still old.
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Old 06-04-21, 06:08 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
I couldn't understand why some people were so for or against this new forum but I suppose it may stem from these interpretations of classic and vintage and their passion for bicycles spilling over into it. Riding what you love and loving what you ride is why most people read the C&V forums and keep it active.
From my post above:
I have enough things to do and I waste enough time on the internet; I don't need to waste more time looking at yet another forum because you think your special bike deserves a more special home or you don't know where to post it.

It's an old bike- it goes in C&V- post your pix there, buck up, scroll past the **** you don't want to look at. Just like everyone else.

This siphons off things that potentially interest me to a place that I'm not going to look- when it really does belong here.

Not only the practical "making it difficult," it also drives a wedge through the C&V community. "Your bike does not belong here." And that is antithetical to what this forum has historically been about.
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Old 06-04-21, 06:58 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
As long as you use a Shimano SIS rear derailleur, there's no need to change or add anything.

6-speed block with 9-speed Ergo:
Too bad it doesn't require some ridiculous scheme to do it.

How about on a four-cog freewheel?

-Kurt
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Old 06-04-21, 07:09 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
she and I disagree over whether or not The Division Bell is classic. She thinks it is... She also likes Hall and Oates, so I feel like her credibility is weak...
You're right that post-Waters Floyd is neither C nor V.

But a soulful ballad like Sara Smile is, absolutely, 100%.

Just like early '70s BÖC.


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Old 06-04-21, 07:39 AM
  #108  
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Old 06-04-21, 09:09 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Sure, it's aging out, but it's still called classic rock.

Anecdotally, my 20 year old daughter is really into Pink Floyd, but she and I disagree over whether or not The Division Bell is classic. She thinks it is. I think it's what happens when a band (or some members thereof) don't know when to quit. She also likes Hall and Oates, so I feel like her credibility is weak. I think this is still tracking, very loosely, to the bike situation.
I think the definition of "classic" with music, much like with bikes, depends on how it's being used. To me, classic can be used as "that's a classic!" as in, it's an important, stand out piece of work that is noted in history; like a Shelby Cobra, or Frampton Comes Alive. The other way is classic as in a time period/epoch, etc. Like, classical music. For the most part, orchestral music from the 1600-early 1900's is all lumped together as "classical" music - or any cars built between 1940-1980 are classic cars, etc.

For the purposes of this forum discussion, I like to think of classic in terms of the time frame: so there's a vintage epoch, and a classic epoch of bikes. And yes, it's a moving time frame because of the spacetime continuum. However, the type of bikes & components meld into each other pretty well, and frames from both periods have parts that swap back and forth depending on tastes. So I think keeping everything together in one forum makes the most sense.

And for the record, The Division Bell is absolutely a classic album that features some of Gilmour's best guitar playing & lyrics (thanks Polly Samson). A Momentary Lapse was a definite 80's album, but it gave us Sorrow, On the Turning Away, & Terminal Frost. Gilmour's subsequent solo albums have also been real good - though On An Island was light years better than Rattle That Lock. Is the Division Bell as classic as the likes of Dark Side, WYWH, Animals, or The Wall? No, those are huge culturally/musically impactful albums. But it's still a great album from a great band. Just like my 1994 Specialized isn't a ground breaking bike, but it's a good frame from the respected company.
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Old 06-04-21, 09:36 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I think we all need our own individual subforums.
Get off my subforum, er, lawn!
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Old 06-04-21, 09:38 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
But it's still a great album from a great band. Just like my 1994 Specialized isn't a ground breaking bike, but it's a good frame from the respected company.
...it would be cool to have a "Specialized Only" forum. I can imagine long rants about how Mike Sinyard is the earthly presence of Beelzebub, and how wonderful some of the bikes are, considering the ethical and moral bankruptcy of a company that sues everyone over intellectual property and proprietary rights, along with the history of their early mountain bike origins. I would definitely follow that forum.
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Old 06-04-21, 10:14 AM
  #112  
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I am not likely to ever visit that other forum. I spend almost all my time in C&V. I occasionally dip my toes in the Road and Commuting forums, more for the topical discussion than for the bikes. I was sort of indifferent about the whole thing until I realized that mods are actively going through and moving threads into this new forum.

Quoted from the other linked thread:
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
Yes, we are trying to move the threads into the new sub forum. If you guys see something that should be moved, please please please report it and suggest it go into the new forum. THAT WOULD HELP A WHOLE LOT~~ Because right now, my team is trying to go through each thread to see if it belongs there and it's a lot of work. Thanks,. I really appreciate it.
At first I thought @Drillium Dude posted his stunning Davidson in that forum to get the ball rolling over there. Same with @jamesdak and his (classic but maybe not quite vintage enough?) Pinarello Monviso. Now I realized those threads were likely moved by the mods. I probably never would have bothered to look over there, and would have missed these beautiful, classic , KOF builds from people I consider "C&V BF members." I'd be bummed if that was my thread and I wanted to share those bikes with the community with which I most associate. I consider myself a bit of a retro-grouch curmudgeon, but I'm happy to see those bikes/threads in the C&V forum.

EDIT:
I see the "Retro Roadies - old frames with STI or Ergos" thread has been moved, too

I've got a '85 De Rosa Pro I built with 9-speed ergos. It's built with a mix of 80s and 90s Chorus/C-Record/Record. The truth is, the frame doesn't look much different from an early 90s De Rosa Pro. I've posted a photo of this bike in that "Retro Roadies with STI..." thread. I think that thread should remain in C&V. It's specifically for C&V bikes "upgraded" with brifters, not bikes from the early brifter era. It's a slippery slope and an unnecessary division of our interests imho.


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Old 06-04-21, 10:23 AM
  #113  
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Did I think an additional sub forum was needed? No, not really. I had no issue with those falling into C&V if posters felt that's where they'd get the best results.
Will I visit it? Yeah probably, maybe on an as needed basis. Mostly if I picked up a bike in that category and need some advice.

Admin made a decision, will it change my life? No.
Whatever, another sub forum on an internet forum. Read or scroll by, life goes on.
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Old 06-04-21, 10:35 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Too bad it doesn't require some ridiculous scheme to do it.

How about on a four-cog freewheel?

-Kurt
I believe that requires a more complicated cable routing:

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Old 06-04-21, 10:52 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
I believe that requires a more complicated cable routing:
Engineered in the UK, then?

-Kurt
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Old 06-04-21, 10:57 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post

At first I thought @Drillium Dube posted his stunning Davidson in that forum to get the ball rolling over there. Same with @jamesdak and his (classic but maybe not quite vintage enough?) Pinarello Monviso. Now I realized those threads were likely moved by the mods. I probably never would have bothered to look over there, and would have missed these beautiful, classic , KOF builds from people I consider "C&V BF members." I'd be bummed if that was my thread and I wanted to share those bikes with the community with which I most associate. I consider myself a bit of a retro-grouch curmudgeon, but I'm happy to see those bikes/threads in the C&V forum.
Yeah, mods moved that Pinarello one for whatever reason. Just got a PM saying it had been moved and was like WTH?? I post for my "family" and my family is C&V.
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Old 06-04-21, 10:59 AM
  #117  
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While I appreciate the proactive stance and the effort of the mods, this move might have been a little premature, IMO. What unites us in this community is not so much the exact age of bikes or parts, but the way we look at bikes (and life in general, for that matter). C&V is my favorite online watering hole. I enjoy the folks here, and whether the topic is 1950's tubing characteristics, early Weinmann brifters or the belief shared by some that cats would exterminate humanity if they could, matters less to me.

Removing popular threads like "Retro Roadies - old frames with STI or Ergos" is quite unfortunate. I liked (note the past tense) that thread.
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Old 06-04-21, 11:04 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
At first I thought @Drillium Dube posted his stunning Davidson in that forum to get the ball rolling over there. Same with @jamesdak and his (classic but maybe not quite vintage enough?) Pinarello Monviso. Now I realized those threads were likely moved by the mods. I probably never would have bothered to look over there, and would have missed these beautiful, classic , KOF builds from people I consider "C&V BF members." I'd be bummed if that was my thread and I wanted to share those bikes with the community with which I most associate. I consider myself a bit of a retro-grouch curmudgeon, but I'm happy to see those bikes/threads in the C&V forum.

EDIT:
I see the "Retro Roadies - old frames with STI or Ergos" thread has been moved, too
Retro Roadies? Nooooooo!!!!!

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Old 06-04-21, 11:15 AM
  #119  
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We got a present for you.



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Old 06-04-21, 11:26 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
While I appreciate the proactive stance and the effort of the mods, this move might have been a little premature, IMO. What unites us in this community is not so much the exact age of bikes or parts, but the way we look at bikes (and life in general, for that matter). C&V is my favorite online watering hole. I enjoy the folks here, and whether the topic is 1950's tubing characteristics, early Weinmann brifters or the belief shared by some that cats would exterminate humanity if they could, matters less to me.

Removing popular threads like "Retro Roadies - old frames with STI or Ergos" is quite unfortunate. I liked (note the past tense) that thread.
Yup agreed. @Siu Blue Wind can we officially end the experiment now and get the threads moved back to C&V and the brifter forum closed? The consensus is that we'd like it all within C&V.
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Old 06-04-21, 11:42 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Yeah, mods moved that Pinarello one for whatever reason. Just got a PM saying it had been moved and was like WTH?? I post for my "family" and my family is C&V.
Report the post and ask that it get moved to where it belongs.
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Old 06-04-21, 11:55 AM
  #122  
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I was wondering if they were going to purge those threads from the road bike forum also?
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Old 06-04-21, 11:57 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
That's pretty much the message I'm getting. lol

But then others wanted it.

Darned if I do, darned if I don't.

It wasn't easy to do guys. I'm trying.
So will all threads about MTBs that are in 'general' be moved to the 'MTB' forum?
Will all threads about road bikes that are in 'general' be moved to the 'road' forum?
Will all threads about MTBs that are in 'C&V' be moved to the 'MTB' forum?
Will all threads about early hybrids that are in C&V' be moved to the 'Hybrid' forum?
And then there are the touring/bikepacking threads that are started and left in 'General'.

Clearly where threads are allowed to stay is more of a guideline than a rule, so...
Stop moving threads to the new forum without checking to see if the OP wants it there.
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Old 06-04-21, 11:58 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
No worries.

It's just that 7/8/9s not always are classic and vintage yet not new enough to be in road and so there was a middle ground. People can post where they want but some might just be interested in those bikes and it just makes it easier for them to find rather than search through road, c and v and general. Kind of like how all the medical threads were in 50+.,t was soooo filled with medical issues that it was hard to find cycling content. We made a separate one for those as well. It took a while but it's getting good traffic.
If people can post where they want, then let the threads stay where the person wanted.
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Old 06-04-21, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...50 years from now, all the CF reinforced plastic bikes will have asploded, and the olde aluminum frames will have all died from metal fatigue. Brifters from this era will be the focus of the guys who used to collect mechanical, spring wound watches. Shifting technology will be dominated by thought controlled shifting, and the same people who are now horrified by the idea of taking a hand off the bar to manipulate a downtube shifter will be unwilling to be distracted by something like a brifter.

When some archeologist of 2071 is poking around in the ruins of Sacramento, he will react to his discovery of my garage like Howard Carter did when he opened the tomb of Tut. This reminds me I should leave a note behind.
I resemble that remark....
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