Threaded headset with race built into frame
07-13-21, 10:47 PM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Threaded headset with race built into frame
Hey guys,
This is my first post and first time working with older components so bear with me and apologies if I get any terminology wrong.
I have an old frame that I use for cruising around the city, going to the shops etc. Super simple, no suspension and single speed. It has been unreal for years but has always had it's issues. I have finally decided it's time to strip it back and build it up with some new parts.
I'm struggling with the headset. As I understand I need to purchase a correctly sized threaded headset, remove the upper and lower cups (which as far as I'm concerned is the part that cradles the bearings and seats itself in the frame, and replace them with the new one. The issue I'm having is that my frame seems to have the cup built in as part of the headtube and it is very damaged.
Another thing I'm not too sure on is the size of the headset. The internal diameter of my head tube is a bit over 1 ⅛ of an inch. The forks I have (and the forks the bike came with) are 1 inch diameter. I assume that difference is where the headset comes in. So does a 1 inch headset have an internal or external diameter of 1 inch?
I've attached some photos to show the frames head tube. Thanks so much for any help in advance!
Edit
Apparently I'm not allowed to post photos which makes life really hard
This is my first post and first time working with older components so bear with me and apologies if I get any terminology wrong.
I have an old frame that I use for cruising around the city, going to the shops etc. Super simple, no suspension and single speed. It has been unreal for years but has always had it's issues. I have finally decided it's time to strip it back and build it up with some new parts.
I'm struggling with the headset. As I understand I need to purchase a correctly sized threaded headset, remove the upper and lower cups (which as far as I'm concerned is the part that cradles the bearings and seats itself in the frame, and replace them with the new one. The issue I'm having is that my frame seems to have the cup built in as part of the headtube and it is very damaged.
Another thing I'm not too sure on is the size of the headset. The internal diameter of my head tube is a bit over 1 ⅛ of an inch. The forks I have (and the forks the bike came with) are 1 inch diameter. I assume that difference is where the headset comes in. So does a 1 inch headset have an internal or external diameter of 1 inch?
I've attached some photos to show the frames head tube. Thanks so much for any help in advance!
Edit
Apparently I'm not allowed to post photos which makes life really hard
Last edited by Greenc0102; 07-13-21 at 11:12 PM.
07-13-21, 11:48 PM
#2
Really Old Senior Member
A little study should help ID what you have-
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...&area%5B%5D=55
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...&area%5B%5D=55
07-14-21, 09:18 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,091
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4207 Post(s)
Liked 3,872 Times
in
2,314 Posts
Some US bikes used a headset spec that is not often talked about. BMX, Schwinn being names for it sometimes. I suggest learning about various specs from Sheldon Brown's site or from Sutherlands Manual. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
07-14-21, 09:36 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18377 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
07-14-21, 09:55 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18377 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
I think your upper headset race is a little past the expiration date.
Sometime a long time ago (1940's?) some manufacturers used an integrated headset which is apparently what you used to have. Any idea of the brand? Perhaps the threading on various parts including the bottom bracket?
WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?
If your fork is 1" then that will be the headset size.
I think the first thing I'd do is to try to get an accurate internal measurement of your headtube.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-headsets.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...mbrackets.html
Note, Sheldon Brown could be off for stuff from before the 1950's.
So if you're around 30mm or 30.2mm (or slightly smaller) for the ID of the headtube, then you're in luck.
I'd go ahead and cut off at least the upper headset race, then face and ream it. And evaluate the lower race.
You may need to find a local "frame builder", or a local bike shop that deals with vintage steel bikes, or someone with the tools to help out. Thus, the location is important.
A couple of bike subforums you might be interested in:
https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage
Upload some photos of the complete bike and complete frame (before and after disassembly). Also some photos of the fork... It may help us, but is also interesting.
Also some photos of your headset, upper headset, and fork crown race.
Any brands or models are helpful.
Sometime a long time ago (1940's?) some manufacturers used an integrated headset which is apparently what you used to have. Any idea of the brand? Perhaps the threading on various parts including the bottom bracket?
WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?
If your fork is 1" then that will be the headset size.
I think the first thing I'd do is to try to get an accurate internal measurement of your headtube.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-headsets.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...mbrackets.html
Note, Sheldon Brown could be off for stuff from before the 1950's.
So if you're around 30mm or 30.2mm (or slightly smaller) for the ID of the headtube, then you're in luck.
I'd go ahead and cut off at least the upper headset race, then face and ream it. And evaluate the lower race.
You may need to find a local "frame builder", or a local bike shop that deals with vintage steel bikes, or someone with the tools to help out. Thus, the location is important.
A couple of bike subforums you might be interested in:
https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage
Upload some photos of the complete bike and complete frame (before and after disassembly). Also some photos of the fork... It may help us, but is also interesting.
Also some photos of your headset, upper headset, and fork crown race.
Any brands or models are helpful.
Last edited by CliffordK; 07-15-21 at 03:02 AM.
07-14-21, 10:04 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18377 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
Cutting, reaming, and replacing would be the easy method.
You may also be able to build up with weld and machine it back to the original profile. That might be the way to go if you were doing an "original" restoration.
But, I don't see that as feasible option unless you have access to a very nice home shop.
You may also be able to build up with weld and machine it back to the original profile. That might be the way to go if you were doing an "original" restoration.
But, I don't see that as feasible option unless you have access to a very nice home shop.
