mark_243245

Hi,
All of the Shimano docs for CUES and Deore cranksets specify O.L.D. compatibility with 135mm (Quick Release) O.L.D. frames but not 130mm?

So how would you put a CUES or Deore groupset including Shimano cranksets onto a 130mm (Quick Release) O.L.D. hybrid frame (which most of the hybrids are)?

Seeing as CUES is supposed to replace Alivio, Altus and all other low-end Hybrid groupsets, how will it go onto 130mm O.L.D. hybrid bike frames? Will the major brands just end up just changing every hybrid they make into a 135mm O.L.D.?

For example, I was informed (after asking by email) by Jamis that the Coda S1 hybrid is 135mm O.L.D. (more expensive groupset) and the Coda S2 hybrid is 130mm O.L.D. (cheaper groupset).

Then I found out today the Giant Cross City Disc 3 2022 model is still 130mm O.L.D. So how could you upgrade it to Deore or CUES cranksets? Without violating or disobeying Shimano's docs/specs.

I'm talking about Quick-Release, not thru-axle, which I haven't even tried to understand yet.

I found this which seems to be about spoke interference with 11-speed LINKGLIDE. Some 130mm compatible rear wheel hubs are listed. But 130mm is not specified in the Shimano product LINKGLIDE crankset specs as being there (compatible).

ht*ps://si.shimano.com/en/cues/technical-assets-techdoc-techinfo

Thanks

Duragrouch

I'm not an authority, but I think it may depend on what is the difference on the hubs between 130 and 135; If they just added spacers just inboard of the locknuts, I think you could just change those out. But if the hub body and/or freehub body is wider, you might not be able to do that, and you might need to use a 130mm road hub. Just my guess. Others on here will know more.

Trav1s

Not an authority either but adding spacers to keep the tire centered between the chainstays is a logical and cost effective solution to the 130/135mm rear spacing difference. I recently converted two older 130mm 105 rear hubs to 135mm using the wider QR axle and spacers. It took me a bit of fine tuning to get the spacing right but the end results are great.

Duragrouch

Yes, but I think what they need to know is, can you mount a 135 hub on 130 dropouts? Are there spacers that can be removed? Or is the 135 hub body and/or freehub body wider, and you can't narrow it down?

Trav1s

Thanks for that clarity - I failed to extrapolate that from the original post. #dontpostbeforecoffee

Kontact 

The normal answer is "Spread the rear dropouts, and use either two 2.5mm spacers under BB cups, or use a longer spindle."

icemilkcoffee 

These are nearly new bikes. Have you even bought these bikes yet? Why is there an urgent need to upgrade these bikes to CUES? What problems are you trying to solve here?

BTW I glanced at the specs of the Giant Cross City Disc 3 - this bike uses a 7 speed freewheel, as opposed to the normal cassette. BAD. AVOID. In general avoid all low end bikes with freewheels and /or mechanical disc brakes.

Iride01 

130mm rear spacing is going to have a different chain line than wider rear spacing. So you need to look for cranks that have the proper chain line.

The Cues and current manufacture Deore are made for those bikes with the wider spacing and chain line of 48.8 to 51.8mm depending on the model of crankset. You probably need something with a chain line of 45mm or less.

Possibly a older model of Deore from the time of narrower rear spacing on bikes might have less chain line. Deore has been around awhile. Not sure about Cues.

If you can find a Deore that use a octalink II or square taper BB, you can play with spindle length to get the proper chain line.... maybe. But I think all the current Deores are a 2 piece crank with fixed distance between the crank arms. Perhaps if your bb shell is narrow enough, you can put spacers on the non-drive side to bring it's chain line to a more correct place. But you'll be spending a bunch of money to trial and error something that might not work.

icemilkcoffee 

Anyways, to answer the initial question. The CUES seems to have a chainline that is optimized for 135mm hubs. The 135mm hub has the cassette shifted 2.5mm to the right relative to the 130mm hub. So what to do? Luckily most frames with 130mm dropouts, also tend to have 68mm bottom bracket shell width (as opposed to the 'MTB' standard of 73mm). Shimano specifically gives you 2X2.5mm spacers to put on either side of the BB bearings, to fill the space caused by the narrower 68mm BB shell.
So a screwball, unauthorized and possibly indecent solution, would be to take the 2.5mm spacer on the right and put it on the left (basically doubling the spacers on the left). So now the entire crankset would be shifted 2.5mm to the left, and the crankset would be in the same position vis-a-vis the cassette as God and Shimano intended.
Another screwball solution would be to use chainring spacers, to space the chainring ~2.5mm to the left.
Yet another 'solution' would be to do nothing. I doubt that 2.5mm will cause any issues. Especially on these bikes with longish wheelbase.

Arrowana

135mm spacing is actually more common than 130mm on hybrids, and has been for awhile. If you plan to use a CUES crankset on a 130mm frame, you could go square taper with a 5mm shorter spindle, or 2 piece with spacers on the non-driveside would likely work too.

mark_243245

Thanks for that. Aside from the problem of the 10/11-speed cassette being installable on the 130mm wheelset and freehub, which sometimes they can be, it would affect the chainline from the Shimano spec. if the rear cassette installed in a 130mm frame were 2.5mm to the left (given that the smallest cog on the cassettes is usually up against the right rear dropout). And then nothing happened to the crankset to move it left.

So you can either space the chainrings to the left, provided your clearance with your frame is OK, or you can remove the spacers in a 130mm frame bottom bracket right hand side, also depending on your frame clearance and chain-tire clearance.

Just didn't know what normally happened with hybrids with Shimano components (such as Tourney cranksets). As in from bike store brand bikes like Cannondale, Giant, etc. Hybrids seem to be 130mm frame mostly, but some are 135mm, like the current Trek FX Disc series, which seems to have in its' spec a 135mm QR, so presume the Trek dropouts would be 135mm.

The Trek FX 1 Disc also comes with a proper 8/9/10 freehub called Formula DC-22, so upgrading to 10-speed on this should be easy enough, compared to the Giant Cross City Disc 3 that has a freewheel on the wheel.

Garthr

From reading this https://www.cyclingweekly.com/produc...pset-below-105 the CUES system is being introduced in annual increments. At this time all the CUES available is for 135mm and above O.L.D. hubs. The 130mm version is to come later( a few years), supposedly. The Tiagra, Sora and Claris road hubs are still available, so that's what you'd use on any frame with 130mm O.L.D. spacing.

So the direct answer about using a current CUES 135mm hub on a 130mm spaced frame is, you don't, as there are plenty of 130mm spaced hubs available. Don't go trying to break what isn't broken. Yes dropouts can be spread, if done by someone who knows what they're doing. A shorter threaded axle with 5mm less spacers may or may not work on the 135mm CUES hub as I've seen the exploded view and I'd have to see it in person to see how long the NDS spacer is. I do this all the time with threaded freewheel hubs(10mm threaded axles) and it's a breeze because you can fine tune the spacers. With freehubs though it may not be so easy, it depends on each hub.

If all that sounds like fun, have at it !
Otherwise just buy the suitable 130mm road hub.
And the CUES system is supposed to be backward compatible with what it's supposedly replacing. Meaning it's not introducing yet another set of Shimano proprietary "standards". So say you bought a Tiagra freehub and a few years later Tiagra is gone and you need a new crank. Supposedly the CUES crank would be a direct replacement specwise and in function. I say "supposedly" as it's pie-in-the-sky at this time. Yum yum ... who doesn't love me some PIE ?

70sSanO

Is the S1 and S2 frame the same with the only difference being components?

If so, I might have 132.5mm dropouts.

John