pepperbelly

I have been riding between 12 and 15 miles at a time. I am usually struggling near the end.
I may be doing it wrong. I try to ride for the fastest average speed and try to get that higher.
Should I be going slower instead and working on the distance and let the speed come on it’s own?

Kai Winters

Depends...what does "at a time" mean? How often do you ride? Is 12-15 miles your normal distance?
What are your stats? Age, Weight, General Physical Condition, Medical Issues, etc. They all matter to a degree.
What do you mean when you say you are "struggling at the end"?
How long does it take you to ride that average distance?

Rather than try to ride at the fastest average speed do harder and easier efforts to train your mind and body for the harder and recover during the easier.
Runners use a training effort called "Fartlekking"...spelling??? Basically it is non-regimented run of easier and harder efforts...run hard when you want and then easy to recover. It can make 'training' a bit more fun than using a regimented method especially for newer riders, etc.
You can use a hill for a hard effort...you know it is coming so ride at an easy pace then go into the hill a bit hard and continue to increase the effort until it is too difficult then sit and spin...recover then do something else like sprint for a town line sign, etc. You're training your body and mind to become stronger and get used to harder efforts knowing an easier recovery period is on the way.

Incorporating the above you should find that the ride you mention goes faster and feels easier after several weeks...it is not an overnight thing.
When the ride become easier you can add another couple of miles and perhaps more 'hard' efforts...mix the hard efforts with medium hard, more hard for less time...perhaps 30 seconds. Also mix how you tackle the hard efforts, meaning do some from a seated position, some from a standing such as a 15 second sprint or a short hill and some from mixed, meaning you start from a standing effort for perhaps 10-15 seconds then sit and hold that effort for another 15 seconds.

Good luck and keep us informed...

pepperbelly

There is a paved trail around a local lake. That loop is about 6 miles. I do 2 laps but want to do more. I should be doing 20-25 mile rides.
Another paved trail by the Trinity River is about 15 miles out and back from the trailhead I use.
I usually start slowing and having to strain after about 10 miles.
Both trails have a lot of short climbs, especially the lake. The lake trail also has some very sharp turns and posts at bridge entries and exits. I average about 13-14mph on that trail.
I have only ridden the river trail once and was really dragging after mile 12.
I am going to fine tune some things-drink gatorade throughout the ride. I may be running out of carbs. I am 65 and about 230 pounds. I have been doing a very low carb diet.

I mainly was wondering if I should work on endurance and ket the speed come on it’s own, or push hard all the time. I have sorta been trying to go as fast as I can and hard on hills. I think that is why I fade at the end. I am not conditioned yet. I ride as often as I can but not every day-yet.

missinglink

I'd definitely strive for endurance for now. Especially with summer just around the corner. Speed will improve rather naturally.

pepperbelly

I was thinking that might be the way.
It took 56 minutes to ride the 2 lake loops-12 miles. It took 1:18 to ride the 15 mile river trail but I actually stopped at about mile 12 or 13 to take a drink of water. The last few miles were miserable and slow.

downtube42

Sounds like 12 is fairly easy. Ride 12 miles, 3x per week, until 12 miles is ezpz. Then increase to 18. Ride 18 3x until that's ezpz.

Keep increasing by 30-50%.

If at any time, it's miserable, back off the distance. Misery and suffering is advanced stuff, for much later.

Eventually you'll run out of time on weeknights. Keep the weeknight rides at that distance, and continue ramping up the weekend distance.

That'll get you to 100 miles, given enough time. At some point you can incorporate intervals, but that's not really necessary just yet.

missinglink

I think you have a pretty respectable average speeds. Especially in the hilly areas. You're on a really nice and well suited bike too.

I'm hoping to get out tomorrow for a few miles. Spent all day today getting yard work done.

SpedFast

Every ride I do is like a competition with myself and I know I'm not alone in that. If 2 laps is doable and you don't want to start a third because it's more than you "enjoy", just do the 2 laps as fast as you can and before you know it, you're going to want to go further and then add that 3rd lap and be prepared to suffer. Your average speed is respectable now; wait until it's pushing a solid 15. I remember thinking 12MPH was good when I first switched from MTBing to road. Now I'm disappointed if I can't maintain a 3 minute mile for a distance of 25 miles or 20 average. My record for 25 miles is 22.7 MPH and I literally fell over in the driveway and a neighbor lady came running to see if I was alright. I recorded that ride and was lying there with a huge smile on my face, even if I couldn't catch my breath. That was last fall and I haven't been able to break it. In fact, I'm finding it hard just to do my 20 avg anymore. I might be getting old after all

pepperbelly

I will be out tomorrow, wind or no wind.

Mtracer

It sounds to me like you're simply pushing too hard and running out of gas. No matter how fit a cyclist is, there's always an intensity they can ride that will exhaust them in an hour. Better to ride at a pace that is sustainable for the entire ride.

The low-card diet is a possible contributor to the issue. If you have a feeling of quickly become very tired, like hitting a wall with the effort, you my be bonking (running out of stored carbs).

While it's possible for some people to adapt to riding at higher intensity while fueling from fat, generally there's a point where the body simply cannot convert fat quickly enough to keep up with demand. Normally, an hour ride is short enough that you shouldn't need to eat while you ride. But if you are restricting carbs, then you likely have low glycogen stores (stored carbs). Glycogen is quickly and easily used to fuel muscles. In fact much of it is stored in the muscles themselves.

Again, normally you would have several hours worth of glycogen and wouldn't have to eat while riding. Though there are still reasons to do so.

I have no idea how to approach this while trying to maintain the effect of a low carb diet. Except to say that if you are consuming carbs but then immediately burning them, I would assume it wouldn't upset the low-carb diet too much. But I'm sure there's people on the forum who know about this. You certainly aren't the first person to do endurance exercise while on a low carb diet.

I know with myself, when I'm generally calorie restricting (though not low carb) to take off weight, even though I fuel rides, I simply cannot ride at as high an effort. If I've been over eating a bit, say around the holidays or similar excuse, I can ride much stronger for longer and feel great. This is the effect from "carbo loading."

Not eating enough for your ride can tend to encourage over eating later in the day after the ride. If your fueling the ride properly, you shouldn't feel hungry or have a huge appetite when you're done riding. That can be a sign of not fueling the ride properly.

Of course, not drinking enough can be an issue too. But unless you're riding in a hot and humid environment, I doubt you're getting dehydrated in an hour. And you mention drinking Gatorade.

Keep in mind that there are advantages to doing a lot of riding at a low pace. They call this zone 2. You should still be able to talk while riding at this pace. Also, at age 65 (I'm 63), riding everyday may be too ambitious. Like any exercise, the gains come during the recovery after the effort. If you don't give your body enough time, nutrition, and sleep, it can't recover properly. Going out and trying to hammer every ride is generally not a good way to build up fitness.

pepperbelly

In another thread I was discussing carbs during a ride. I am going to try gatorade and see if that helps.
It does feel like hitting a wall. Once I get warmed up after a mile or 2 I feel good, then all of a sudden I feel like I am out of gas.

OldTryGuy

I see that you posted, *Location: Fort Worth, Texas*, so might I suggest you use an ear bud and listen to The WOLF 95.5 and just let things flow as you ride. I'm in SW FL and enjoy the tunes 'cause the miles just seem to drift along while I'm having a good time pedaling.

p.s. - it's almost 2:30am and I'm getting ready to head out for some miles listening to The WOLF 95.5 in stereo

PeteHski

If you are on a very low carb diet and want to ride further then you need to ride slower to stay in the predominantly fat burning zone. Over time your speed should still improve, but if you go too hard you will burn through your limited glycogen store (carb based) and quickly tire. This is probably what you are experiencing at the end of your current rides. The faster you ride the more dependent you become on fuelling with carbs. If you can tolerate carbs while riding then that will help to maintain your energy levels.

50PlusCycling

I got back on my bike at the beginning of March, when the weather finally started to warm up. My first ride was 12 miles (20km) at an easy pace, with nice and slow warmup period. I did two more identical rides during the first week. I might have tried riding farther, but I was breaking in a new Brooks saddle, as well as getting my backside broken in again.

The second week I did two 12 mile rides, and at the end of the week I added an 18 mile ride. I kept the pace smooth and steady, neither fast nor slow. I usually take it rather easy for the first 6 or so weeks of riding as I want to get my joints and tendons time to strengthen up a little. For hard training, I give myself 8 weeks to acquire base fitness.

After a month, I was doing one or two 25 mile rides in a week, and adding some short intervals to pick up my pulse, and work my leg muscles. My recovery times quicken once I begin getting into shape, I may feel worn out after a ride, but the next day I usually feel perfectly fine to go for another ride.

For the past 3 weeks I have done a few rides of 70 to 100 km (42 to 62 miles) on flat terrain, and adding intervals, that is, increasing my speed by 2 or 3 mph until I can’t do it anymore, then slowing down until I catch my breath, then repeating.

I always start my rides at a slow pace with a long warmup period, and on longer rides I take it easier in the first half of the ride so I don’t feel worn out during the second half. When working on improving my speed, I usually do that on shorter rides of 25 to 30 miles. I find that even though I am older, my body still responds well to exercise, and still adapts fairly quickly.

Last week I spent the morning riding the Yoyogi cycling path, and according to the Strava leaderboard, my 5 lap time was the fastest of 2024, and the 14th fastest of all time, for all age groups. This made me quite happy.

When I am on the cycling course or paths, I look for “rabbits,” that is, other riders who are faster than I am. As an old racer, I still feel a little competitive when I am riding with or around other riders, and this inspires me to ride harder and faster than I otherwise might.

As I do longer and more intense rides, I find that I have to be careful that I eat enough to maintain my endurance. Since I started riding, I’ve been on a high fat, low carb diet. While this diet has helped me lose a significant amount of weight, as my mileage increases, I find I have to add more carbs, or I run out of energy. When I have a long ride planned, I eat carefully the day before, eating a large amount of food broken into several small meals. This is something I did back when I was racing, and learned that the proper food eaten at the proper time could make a huge difference in performance. Eating 5 or 6 small meals rather than 2 or 3 large meals more evenly distributes food in the digestive tract, and allows your body to more easily extract energy and nutrients.

Today I did a 50km (30 mile) ride at a fair pace without even breaking a sweat, and had plenty of energy after my ride to get in a full day of work, dog walking, and an evening playing with my 9-year-old. I am planning a 120km ride for next week, weather permitting, and two or three smaller rides during the week. I’m getting myself into shape for some bikepacking trips later in the year. A couple of these will be quite challenging, but I should be in good enough shape to enjoy them.

boozergut

I find at the 15 mile mark I need a decent break that includes a couple of dried apricots or a banana.

Jughed

I'm a low carb rider as well.

Riding at full gas or close to full gas all the time, even with added carbs, is not something that will lead to good results and at least for me, isn't in any way sustainable. Nor is it sustainable for most athletes, even elite athletes. Burnout, fatigue, injury, trying to build the structure from the top down vs from the bottom up.

Conversation pace riding is our friend. A pace where you can complete full sentences without gasping for air. Don't worry about speed, you will get faster over time. Riding at this pace keeps you in the fat burning zone, limits fatigue, extends your time before getting tired/hitting the wall, and builds endurance.

For me, full gas rides, the rare times I attempt them, need a buildup of carbs starting the day before, carbs during the ride, and post ride carbs to recover. You need a full store of carbs in the body- not just the jolt from a slug of sugar or sports drink.

Conversation pace rides with bouts of 4-15 min full gas efforts - intervals, 2x per week at max, can be done with less carbs. But a full hour at full gas - no way no how.


Build the base/endurance first - build up your base systems and ability to ride long distances, then add some full gas efforts.

big john

Forget speed for now. Just get saddle time. Warm up slowly and find a cadence you can be comfortable doing. Try to get into a rhythm with steady breathing and not blowing up. This means not getting your heart rate too high.

When hills come just shift down and try and stay at an effort where you can talk if you try. You can sprint up little hills later.

12 miles at an easy to moderate pace is a good warmup for me. Even years ago I liked a 20 minute warmup. Now that I'm 70 it's even more important.

I always eat cereal and maybe a banana before riding. Once rolling I don't need anything but water until 25 miles, or so.

I don't try to ride every day. 4 days per week with maybe a 5th day of easy spinning, total 13-15 hours with 1 day of 5-6 hours.

t2p

as long as you save room for a brew after the ride to maintain your ‘boozergut’

we just spotted the trackside taproom (4th pic down) this past weekend - did not stop but plan to soon (probably after a ride)

t2p

^^^^
this

t2p

^^^^
this

boozergut

:-). Had to give up booze. Blood pressure issues. Those look like great places though.

Iride01 

You need to ride at the pace you can maintain for the distance of the ride or slower. If you have hills, you need to know how much energy you can expend to climb them without going too deep in your energy reserves to recover before the energy reserves are next needed.

It took me 3 or 4 years of riding at least 3 times a week to figure that out. It's a moving number so as you improve and ride further or more often, it gets better. If you don't ride regularly or you just do very short rides, it gets worse.

If you use HR, then read up on finding your lactate threshold. If you have a PM, then read up on functional threshold power and training by power. Concentrate on what they recommend for distance cycling. Not what you do in sprints or short one hour rides.
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/learn/...setting-zones/

PM's were expensive when I got serious about cycling. So I used the HR method finding my LTHR. And any article I found by Joe Friel is what I read at that time. I haven't kept up with what he says about power. But now having a PM for about 3+ years, I can say that training by power is very likely better. However I haven't been doing any actual training for anything but brief periods since getting a PM. So I typically just go by the HR training that I already am familiar with for times I know that I have to get better for some planned ride that I haven't ever done.

Don't underestimate how much it does for you to just ride with someone else. It gives you both the motivation to ride more and further. As well the conversations can keep your mind off of some of the drudgery that sometimes doing the same route over and over brings with it. And with the two of you riding as a pace line, you'll marvel at the difference you see on a PM between pulling on the front or riding on the wheel.

t2p

(this might have been mentioned earlier (in this thread or previous threads)

different bike rides (roads, bike paths, etc) can also be a big plus … actually almost certainly will

I’ve found this to be true with running and cycling

when I ran I found much better enjoyment and improvement when I expanded the number and type of places I ran ( especially when compared to a treadmill ouch )

cycling - same thing - enjoyed cycling much much (much) more when I expanded the number and types of bike rides

you can have amazing experiences on a bike - see things and meet people you would not ordinarily meet

t2p

we do coffee / tea stops also … and of course ice cream

there is a small winery near one trail we often ride - that place is jammed at times

one time we were especially amused - bike racks were full and bikes leaned on building and laid on the ground … we saw more bikes parked at the winery than we did during our entire ride (on the nearby trail)

Clyde1820

Might try an "energy gel" type product, which you ought to be able to find at any decent running or cycling shop. Something like, say, Hammer Gel. Their recommendation is 1 serving 10mins prior to activity and then 1 serving every 45mins of activity. Gets added to your water bottle, so it's easy to take along and sip when needed. Get the "dosing" right, then you'll be less likely to bonk and won't over-do it. Can try it over a handful of sessions, to see if it makes a difference.

https://hammernutrition.com/collecti...cts/hammer-gel

If not much difference, then it might be your muscles aren't yet up to that pace+time, as opposed to a "bonking" problem. But you ought to be able to rule out the bonking via trying such a gel product. The Hammer is a pretty decent once.

I'm assuming that with an ~hour-ish timeframe it's unlikely you're running low on electrolytes. But that's another aspect worth considering. Again, Hammer has an electrolytes product ... Endurolytes Fizz. Can be added to the water bottle.

https://hammernutrition.com/collecti...durolytes-fizz

Have used both. For harder efforts, or when your body's "bonking" on lack of energy or electrolytes, one or the other (or both) of these might help.