Originally Posted by USAZorro

Have you tried getting parts recently? Might be that they need to keep enough on-hand to be able to perform in-house service.

I suspect the shop owner has a reason that makes sense for him, but that it was horribly communicated.

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy

Leuscher Teknik did a couple of videos on this particular lousy design...


Bad designs aren't the same thing as not allowing folks to repair their own stuff, but both are signs of problems in the manufacturer's mindset.
For cranky old guys like us, the attraction to reliable, simple-ish, and well designed stuff is clear.

Originally Posted by scarlson

If I have too many good days, I may need to braze the frame back together again when it cracks in another place. Heavens, what would the OP's bike shop think of that?.

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy

yeah, I wonder why Deere allows these sorts of problems to exist with their dealers?
Also, why don't their competitors jump at this opportunity to steal some of that market share? I see J.I. Case and Agco hardware in use, but in pretty small numbers compared to the Deere stuff...



There are definitely some C&V tractors being used too, but tends to be on smaller properties.

The most productive equipment is usually the new stuff with the complicated sensors and actuators and all of that stuff. A lot of this stuff is communicating over networks (probably CAN), with lots of different components being essential for operation. Without the proper service tools, the odds of troubleshooting it properly might be slim. Even then, the diagnostics aren't perfect, and you might have to swap a few parts in and out before finding the real problem.
Admittedly, I'm basing this on my experience with the big yellow machines that I helped design, but I dealt with component manufacturers that were also selling to Deere, so there are known similarities. Plus... Deere was buying some joysticks that I helped develop. We got a cut for each one that Deere bought.

Actually, those joysticks are a good example of the difficulty of repairing the electronics. The stuff was potted and not easy to dig into. I had difficulties when troubleshooting items that came back from the field, and was likely to cause damage just trying to find the original fault. The potting was needed to keep it waterproof, though.

Anyway... it's easy to imagine Shimano or Campy or SRAM ending up like this... having to trash a $500 derailleur or brifter because some solder joint failed deep inside. The level of complexity and features almost guarantees that the part will be incredibly difficult to repair.
I wonder how many other engineers deal with the failings & challenges of high tech during the day, and ride home on a bike with downtube shift levers??

Steve in Peoria (but retired now)

Originally Posted by Pompiere

My son works for Agco as a factory specialist dealing with combines. For the last several weeks, he has been crisscrossing Illinois and Indiana to keep the machines running. It's the Deere corporate philosophy, not just dealers, that is seeking to prevent farmers from doing their own work. I can understand proprietary software, but just refusing to sell parts is ridiculous. That has driven many farmers to switch to other colors. That is significant, since those brand loyalties have been built up for generations.

Originally Posted by Pompiere

He has been carrying his bike in the truck so he can get a ride during the rare down time during harvest season. It is a 1989 Club Fuji, but it has STI levers. He had a bad crash while using the downtube shifters and asked me to change them out. My local shop still sells cables and parts. In fact, last year they had a couple clinics to teach people to rebuild old bikes.

Originally Posted by Phil_gretz

"I was in that town today so I stopped in because I needed some cable and housing. "

This is where the original post lost me. I cannot fathom going to a retail shop to purchase brake cables unless on an extended tour and having had a second cable failure. Then I would purchase any cable that could be made to work.

Cables and housings are consumable items, just like tubs of grease, chains, inner cables, ball bearings, and innertubes. Plus, certain tires when they are on sale and available. I stock all of these in various sizes so that repairs can be expedited when someone brings me their bike. Even basic lined housings ... I maintain a minimal stock of black and grey for any repair, and then will special order red, white, blue, yellow or braided as particular projects require.

Leave this bike shop alone. They don't need you and you don't need them.

Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn

Really, it isn't that crazy.... Try going to a Goodyear, Firestone, Tires Plus, National Tire, PepBoys, Wal-Mart, etc... and they probably will not sell you CARRY OUT car/suv/truck tires. Even if they did, they wouldn't at the specially advertised Sale prices. .

Originally Posted by squirtdad

Not directly on topic, but related to the farm stuff, in newer cars....or at least audi's it is difficult to replace the battery with out dealer or specialist level code and electronics update tools. That is because you have to buy the correct battery that has a code and the car's software has to have the battery code entered. So what used to be a bone simple DIY, now is a $600 shop bill

Originally Posted by Cougrrcj

LBS..? I have given up ... and rely on what I can find online.

Originally Posted by SurferRosa

Not a bad trade-off, since you shop at the biggest bike store with the best prices in the Milky Way*, and it's as close as your front door.

* as far as I know

Originally Posted by squirtdad

this is where the issue is for farm equipment and "right to repair" often time a local implement repair place or the farmer them selves can do the part replacement or repair, but need dealer to do the software part.

the problem is say if you combine goes down in the middle of wheat harvest, you often don't have a couple of days or even hours to be idle waiting for a software update.

some farmers are just keeping older combines, tractors and the like and repairing

Originally Posted by tkamd73

When it comes to servicing or repairing a CV bike, I’ll wager that a lot of us would do a better job, then the offending LBS personal.
Tim

Originally Posted by MrK.

Let me preface this by saying I'm 62 years old. I have been working on bikes since the mechanics in the bike shop close to my house would let me hang out when I was 10 and hand them tools and be otherwise annoying. I live in a small East Texas town. Closest bike shop is an hour away. I go there if I am close and need something, otherwise I order parts online. I was in that town today so I stopped in because I needed some cable and housing. I walked in and asked for a mtb brake cable and a full length piece of housing. The guy was pretty condescending telling me every bike is different and he needs to know exactly how long to cut the housing. I told him it's for a rear disc brake and the housing is full length so to cut me 5 feet. That seemed to annoy him so I said just cut it the length of the cable (knowing full well that there would be some left over). He blew and shook his head in frustration and I turned and started looking at the bike tools (ironic) thinking he was getting the housing. I heard him talking on the phone and mentioning housing. A minute later he gets my attention and asks me if I was bringing the bike in for installation. I told him that I would be installing it myself. He then picked up the cable and told me that I cannot install it myself, they had to do the install per company policy. ??? I know this shop changed hands recently and like to give them business when I am in the area but this is the last time I will give them business. Anyone else ever seen anything this absurd from a bike shop? Sorry for the rant.

Originally Posted by RustyJames

I worked in a couple of German car dealerships and the over engineering is absurd. Some newer cars require you to plug in a laptop to check oil level. (Hard pass…)

On topic - I rarely go to the closest LBS but I’m lucky enough to have Universal Cycles very close to me.

Originally Posted by Pompiere

My son works for Agco as a factory specialist dealing with combines. For the last several weeks, he has been crisscrossing Illinois and Indiana to keep the machines running. It's the Deere corporate philosophy, not just dealers, that is seeking to prevent farmers from doing their own work. I can understand proprietary software, but just refusing to sell parts is ridiculous. That has driven many farmers to switch to other colors. That is significant, since those brand loyalties have been built up for generations.

He has been carrying his bike in the truck so he can get a ride during the rare down time during harvest season. It is a 1989 Club Fuji, but it has STI levers. He had a bad crash while using the downtube shifters and asked me to change them out. My local shop still sells cables and parts. In fact, last year they had a couple clinics to teach people to rebuild old bikes.

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy

yeah, I wonder why Deere allows these sorts of problems to exist with their dealers?
Also, why don't their competitors jump at this opportunity to steal some of that market share? I see J.I. Case and Agco hardware in use, but in pretty small numbers compared to the Deere stuff...



There are definitely some C&V tractors being used too, but tends to be on smaller properties.

The most productive equipment is usually the new stuff with the complicated sensors and actuators and all of that stuff. A lot of this stuff is communicating over networks (probably CAN), with lots of different components being essential for operation. Without the proper service tools, the odds of troubleshooting it properly might be slim. Even then, the diagnostics aren't perfect, and you might have to swap a few parts in and out before finding the real problem.
Admittedly, I'm basing this on my experience with the big yellow machines that I helped design, but I dealt with component manufacturers that were also selling to Deere, so there are known similarities. Plus... Deere was buying some joysticks that I helped develop. We got a cut for each one that Deere bought.

Actually, those joysticks are a good example of the difficulty of repairing the electronics. The stuff was potted and not easy to dig into. I had difficulties when troubleshooting items that came back from the field, and was likely to cause damage just trying to find the original fault. The potting was needed to keep it waterproof, though.

Anyway... it's easy to imagine Shimano or Campy or SRAM ending up like this... having to trash a $500 derailleur or brifter because some solder joint failed deep inside. The level of complexity and features almost guarantees that the part will be incredibly difficult to repair.
I wonder how many other engineers deal with the failings & challenges of high tech during the day, and ride home on a bike with downtube shift levers??

Steve in Peoria (but retired now)