Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

The Huffy VS The Italian Guerciotti: The Ultimate C&V Prize Fight!

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

The Huffy VS The Italian Guerciotti: The Ultimate C&V Prize Fight!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-10-23, 12:18 PM
  #26  
RCMoeur 
Cantilever believer
 
RCMoeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked 1,844 Times in 835 Posts
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Jeeesh... I was going to say, AdventureManCO your writing "reminds me of a long-winded evangelist," (I once knew). Brevity and succinctness are traits which are always appreciated by the people sitting in the pews. Jus' sayin'

Evangelist Robert JC Davids
Harumph, I say. AMCO's extrapolated obfuscatory eloquence is indubitably appreciated by all us hypocrainial cycling experts.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
RCMoeur is online now  
Old 12-11-23, 09:05 AM
  #27  
Steel Charlie
Senior Member
 
Steel Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 286 Posts
Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
Here is where we are at currently -

Two small issues, that will be fairly simple to solve, I just don't know if I have enough spacers, and I can't find my files!


PLEASE ! ! Do NOT cut that steerer ! ! ! Spacers are dirt cheap on eBay
Steel Charlie is offline  
Likes For Steel Charlie:
Old 12-11-23, 09:11 AM
  #28  
Steel Charlie
Senior Member
 
Steel Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 286 Posts
Originally Posted by RCMoeur
Harumph, I say. AMCO's extrapolated obfuscatory eloquence is indubitably appreciated by all us hypocrainial cycling experts.
Particularly so in light of most cyclists' communicative skills consisting of pointing and grunts. Most notably those wearing lycra.
Steel Charlie is offline  
Likes For Steel Charlie:
Old 12-11-23, 10:38 AM
  #29  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Jeeesh... I was going to say, AdventureManCO your writing "reminds me of a long-winded evangelist," (I once knew). Brevity and succinctness are traits which are always appreciated by the people sitting in the pews. Jus' sayin'

Evangelist Robert JC Davids
Originally Posted by RCMoeur
Harumph, I say. AMCO's extrapolated obfuscatory eloquence is indubitably appreciated by all us hypocrainial cycling experts.

Bah! Bob you may have missed the part when I apparently enjoy making people suffer. Otherwise why would I do anything with Huffys?

Misery loves company, and my only regret with threads like this is that they are not compulsory, so unfortunately I don't have a captive audience. However, people keep coming back for more pain, so I'm happy to deliver! Being long-winded only prolongs the agony.

Yet, the most important thing to remember is that since I'm in *direct* contact w/ the Huffy (having to build it, touch it, ride it, etc), everyone's else's pain is just 2nd hand, experienced vicariously through me. Therefore, gift cards to counseling centers are still encouraged. It is Christmas season, after all.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 10:43 AM
  #30  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
Particularly so in light of most cyclists' communicative skills consisting of pointing and grunts. Most notably those wearing lycra.

Lycra jokes are always appreciated here. Especially because most of us wear it. Its healthy to laugh at ourselves. Its also healthy for all of you to laugh at me, lyrca or no lyrica, because 'Huffy'.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 10:49 AM
  #31  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
PLEASE ! ! Do NOT cut that steerer ! ! ! Spacers are dirt cheap on eBay
No worries, I had enough hodge-podgeyness with spacers in the junk drawer to get me by. Will put some on the list for the next time I visit the co-op, probably this week.


__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 11:10 AM
  #32  
tiger1964 
Senior Member
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,442

Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times in 407 Posts
So, will the Guerciotti get an Ashtabula crank?
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.


tiger1964 is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 11:38 AM
  #33  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
So, will the Guerciotti get an Ashtabula crank?
Stop giving me such great ideas. I try to save the best ones, like this one, for more wretch-inducing desecrations like my 1972 Schwinn ‘Majestic Crapamount’. The Huffy parts have worked great on that bike.
AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 12:16 PM
  #34  
jethin
Senior Member
 
jethin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times in 160 Posts
Apologies, but this experiment will be null and void without utilizing the requisite kit (including hair shirt) and achieving the proper riding position.


Last edited by jethin; 12-11-23 at 12:23 PM.
jethin is offline  
Likes For jethin:
Old 12-11-23, 12:38 PM
  #35  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by jethin
Apologies, but this experiment will be null and void without utilizing the requisite kit (including hair shirt) and achieving the proper riding position.



I take donations.

Also, it looks like there is a velodrome in Colorado Springs, one of only a few (16?) left in the country. I'm down for putting these through their paces on there, but I don't know if the velodrome has a 'Super ultra amateur night: even Huffys welcome' on the schedule.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 12:44 PM
  #36  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,951

Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1304 Post(s)
Liked 1,912 Times in 1,142 Posts
Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
No worries, I had enough hodge-podgeyness with spacers in the junk drawer to get me by. Will put some on the list for the next time I visit the co-op, probably this week.


Talk about Huffy quality treatment to a nice frame. "I think we may be back in the blasphemy epoch. Sherman, please set the Wayback controls to 2023" Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 12-11-23, 02:09 PM
  #37  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,847

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2338 Post(s)
Liked 2,827 Times in 1,543 Posts
Tires, if you do not go tubular, then put good quality clincher...i.e gp 5000, Corsa, Rene Herse
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 12-11-23, 02:12 PM
  #38  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,847

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2338 Post(s)
Liked 2,827 Times in 1,543 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
Tires, if you do not go tubular, then put good quality clincher...i.e gp 5000, Corsa, Rene Herse
if you do not want to go that far I has the 28mm gravel kings I would put toward the cause..... they are not at the same level of ride, but to my surprise they ride way better than you would think
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 12-11-23, 03:08 PM
  #39  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,951

Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1304 Post(s)
Liked 1,912 Times in 1,142 Posts
Originally Posted by RCMoeur
So... you ritually disemboweled a Trek Pro Series for good luck? That's hardcore.
Yeah he did! And if you look carefully he managed to sneak in a subtle reminder about those damned "Sandal Nistas". He's probably gonna start spewing stuff about his sandal super powers and how they give him extra power when wrenching. Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 12-11-23, 04:28 PM
  #40  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Yeah he did! And if you look carefully he managed to sneak in a subtle reminder about those damned "Sandal Nistas". He's probably gonna start spewing stuff about his sandal super powers and how they give him extra power when wrenching. Smiles, MH
You must speak with Kurt about that. I only follow in the footsteps of greatness.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 04:31 PM
  #41  
RCMoeur 
Cantilever believer
 
RCMoeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked 1,844 Times in 835 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
So, will the Guerciotti get an Ashtabula crank?
You know, you're daring him to either:

1. Expand the BB shell to accept a one-piece crank (or better, a genuine Ohio-made crank), or

2. Figure a way to weld the crank back together after passing the sides into the shell, and knowing who we're talking about, thermite could be involved.

And there is always the grim possibility of... both.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
RCMoeur is online now  
Likes For RCMoeur:
Old 12-11-23, 04:32 PM
  #42  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
if you do not want to go that far I has the 28mm gravel kings I would put toward the cause..... they are not at the same level of ride, but to my surprise they ride way better than you would think

Eventually we'll probably find some tubulars. I do have a set of Ultegra wheels w/ tubs that I might be able to use. It would require re-spacing to 130mm, and then finding an appropriate cassette - probably a 7 speed, and then using the 7 speed STIs that I have, which would much further the gap between the bikes, but I'd still be okay with it. We will ride the clinchers for starters just to compare. Honestly, I could probably flip wheelsets between the two bikes, since I believe they are both 6 speed, and the same axle lengths. That would probably be the thing to do. Try each, and w/ both clinchers and tubulars. Then the bikes are being tested w/ the same biggest difference-maker: wheels and tires.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!










Last edited by AdventureManCO; 12-11-23 at 09:43 PM.
AdventureManCO is offline  
Likes For AdventureManCO:
Old 12-11-23, 04:41 PM
  #43  
tiger1964 
Senior Member
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,442

Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times in 407 Posts
Originally Posted by RCMoeur
You know, you're daring him to either:
1. Expand the BB shell to accept a one-piece crank (or better, a genuine Ohio-made crank), or
2. Figure a way to weld the crank back together after passing the sides into the shell, and knowing who we're talking about, thermite could be involved.
And there is always the grim possibility of... both.
3. Cut the 1-piece crank in half, weld on metal to each part so there's a male/female join, secured once assembled via a bolt inserted in the hole on the underside of the BB?
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.


tiger1964 is offline  
Likes For tiger1964:
Old 12-11-23, 09:04 PM
  #44  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,951

Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1304 Post(s)
Liked 1,912 Times in 1,142 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
3. Cut the 1-piece crank in half, weld on metal to each part so there's a male/female join, secured once assembled via a bolt inserted in the hole on the underside of the BB?
Wait just a minute there Luke! This is not the turn a good bike into a piece of Crap thread, that is Jdawg's thread that the Magnificent Crapamount is posted in. This is supposed to be heads up competition between two comparable equipped bikes. Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 12-11-23, 09:47 PM
  #45  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
3. Cut the 1-piece crank in half, weld on metal to each part so there's a male/female join, secured once assembled via a bolt inserted in the hole on the underside of the BB?
Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Wait just a minute there Luke! This is not the turn a good bike into a piece of Crap thread, that is Jdawg's thread that the Magnificent Crapamount is posted in. This is supposed to be heads up competition between two comparable equipped bikes. Smiles, MH

I am still open to be inspired by wonderous indecencies to inflict upon unsuspecting cycles in any thread, to be filed away under 'horrible things to do to good bikes', which of course is located right next to 'good things to do to horrible bikes', in my file cabinet.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 11:21 PM
  #46  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
Here is where we currently stand (sit?):




Great stance, but screaming for a white saddle


Due to the Mad Honk ‘s generous nature, he also sent me an appropriately sized seatpost binder bolt for it, and this:




…which is I believe a pretty uncommon/rare item, an Italian-threaded Shimano bottom bracket.

When trying to install, here is what I got:






DS cup went fine, but I’m trying to install the other side, I think the spindle might be about 5mm too long. I do think I have it installed correctly, as it spins smooth. Fortunately, we’ve got a perfectly good spindle sitting in the carcass of the Trek 560 that I’m going to pull and compare lengths. If it is of an appropriate length and the surfaces look good, I will use it.
AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-12-23, 12:32 AM
  #47  
AdventureManCO 
The Huffmeister
Thread Starter
 
AdventureManCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,741

Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 3,561 Times in 1,412 Posts
I think we’re in business.



__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!









AdventureManCO is offline  
Old 12-12-23, 05:24 AM
  #48  
velomateo
Senior Member
 
velomateo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 984

Bikes: '87 Serotta Colorado,'96 Moots VaMoots, Bertoni MAX, Eddy Merckx Grand Prix Team USA

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked 339 Times in 148 Posts
I don’t think so.
The upper spindle is for an Italian BB (70)
The lower one, marked (68) is specific for an English BB.
velomateo is offline  
Likes For velomateo:
Old 12-12-23, 05:35 AM
  #49  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,824

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2441 Post(s)
Liked 3,136 Times in 1,975 Posts
Could the Guerch not have been thread-created long enough? Or a bearing installed upside down?

Does it have play in it?
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is offline  
Likes For jdawginsc:
Old 12-12-23, 06:26 AM
  #50  
jonwvara 
Senior Member
 
jonwvara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Posts: 3,778

Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record

Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 765 Post(s)
Liked 660 Times in 351 Posts
I'm getting pretty tired of all this.
__________________
www.redclovercomponents.com

"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
--Ogden Nash
jonwvara is offline  
Likes For jonwvara:


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.