RCMoeur 

The current AASHTO Guide for Bicycle Facilities has an extensive discussion of right of way assignment at path-roadway intersections, noting that if a busy path is assigned the stop and the crossing roadway has low speeds and volumes, then the observed behavior may not match the expected behavior.

RCMoeur 

This situation also reminds me of visiting Montreal and stopping at a red bicycle signal on a 2-way sidepath. The riders behind me taught me all sorts of new words in French as they angrily swerved around me and entered the intersection anyway.

I analyzed the signal cycle timing - bicyclists on the main street got a whopping 7 seconds of bicycle green in a 70 second cycle. Not much. They adapted by not accepting the added delay and proceeding into the intersection anyway, cross traffic or not.

Normally, conflicts (where a road user must swerve or brake to avoid colliding with another) are a good surrogate for assessing crash risk. But at these Montreal intersections, the motor traffic was going 25 mph or less due to geometrics and congestion, which gave added perception/reaction time. So I witnessed numerous conflicts nearly every signal cycle (with bonus high-volume French phrases), but no crashes. And the reported official crash rate is apparently rather low at these intersections.

However, when these 2-way facilities have been transplanted parallel to higher-speed roads in other cities, there have been numerous severe crashes. Context, travel speed, and appropriate design matters.

LarrySellerz

[QUOTE=Paul Barnard;22989671]A year or so ago, I started a thread about a guy on a bicycle that passed me, whipped out in front of a car and got smacked.

You shouldn't assume the worst of the guys that got smacked. I'm currently recovering from broken ribs, because I was riding reckless and decided to take the hit (riding into a parked car) rather than cut a person like you off. based on what ive seen of you post, you wouldn't understand why I did what I did and likely don't understand many of the altercations you see on the road.

rollagain

The correct action would be to call the police and have them make out an accident report, to which you could add your testimony.

SpeedyBlueBiker

I recently witnessed a cyclist that definitely gives all cyclists a bad name. I was riding east and slightly downhill on North 34th Street in Seattle. Since I could see that the light had turned red I came to stop at the cross street which is Troll Avenue North as did a couple of other bikes behind me. We were all in the designated bike lane and just for bikes. Just shortly after I had come to a stop a RickyRacer type came screaming through the intersection at a high rate of speed (easily 24mph+). A car to my right entered the intersection north bound as they had the green light. RickyRacer slammed on his brakes and fishtailed through the intersection, missing the front end of the car buy about 6-12". The car also had also slammed on their brakes and stopped quickly as they were going very slow. RickyRacer, who was not hit and was very lucky that day, just continued on his way as if nothing had happened. A few cyclists behind me commented (negatively) on this guy who had no regard for traffic control lights.

rsbob 

Thanks mom.

That occurred over thirty years ago and as far as I was concerned, the idiot kid got what he deserved. No one was injured or harmed, just his back wheel. No need to report it as hopefully he learned a lesson.

nomadmax 

I have to agree, obey the law but don't direct traffic. But the point of Paul's post is dead on, I know why they hate us. I live in the midst of some great road cycling right out my front door and there are two big cycling clubs to the north and south of me. Thank goodness it's a little out of the way for both of them because people who pass me on a daily basis give me a wide berth and wave with their whole hand. I've seen prime road riding areas become unrideable because of ******bags on bicycles.

BobbyG

Great phrase!

Chuckles1

That's good. If they don't take the hint, pull out your water bottle and take a nice long squirt to make clear you're not going yet.

KerryIrons

I LOVE the Idaho stop, and am hoping it will get passed in my state. And that is basically how I ride. But I also know that for some people, blowing stop signs somehow never takes on the characteristics of the Yield sign, which is what the Idaho stop law means. The very concept of how a yield sign works seems beyond the comprehension of many motorists and cyclists alike.

SoSmellyAir

Set aside the issue of potential liability for the moment. In my experience, whether driving, cycling, or walking, when one road user starts waving to another road user to move, the latter frequently focuses solely on the former and pays scant attention to additional road users at or approaching the intersection, regardless of traffic signal and signage.

Carbonfiberboy 

This is a very good point. Along that line, I don't wave drivers to come around me. I see that done all the time, and used to do it myself, but I finally realized it's just not a good idea.

Black wallnut 

I didn't miss your point. I have an opposing view. The way the law works is there are always more than one side. A judge or a jury decides which is more correct given the circumstances.

SoSmellyAir

In all likelihood, the decision is made not by a judge or jury, but during a negotiation between your insurance carrier and the insurance carriers of the other involved parties.

Chuck Naill

I time my stops also. I am guilty of waving a motorist through rather than guess whose turn it is. You've made me consider this isn't a good practice. I have seen the Ricky Racer types, but hadn't heard the term. Thanks again.

Eric F 

What is a Ricky Racer?

Chuck Naill

The OP used the term in post #1.

Eric F 

I understand that. I'm still not sure what a "Ricky Racer type" is.

SoSmellyAir

Perhaps someone who speeds recklessly into a parked car? See post #28 above.

zandoval 

Paul Barnard

As road users, we are always communicating with one another. I'll give you some examples.

Traffic is moving slowly on the approach to a traffic light. A car is on a side street getting ready to turn onto the street I am on. A little light flash lets them know that I am okay with them pulling out.

I am on the interstate I move out into the left lane getting ready to pass several vehicles. The rear most of those vehicles is a semi. The semi gives their turn signal, just as I move out. I flash them to let them know that I am okay with them entering the lane ahead of me.

I am stopped at a red light. The light turns green, and the driver in front of me sits there. I tap the horn.

In all of those cases, I communicated with another road user. Should we not do these things?

Take the first scenario. I don't flash my lights, but rather I slow and leave an opening. If the motorist enters the roadway and has a collision, did I buy any legal liability in that? The message I was conveying in both instances is that I was prepared for them to enter the roadway ahead of me.

Anyone can sue anybody for damn near any reason. I like my chances of not being sued as a consequence of communicating with other drivers, especially when I can make an informed read of the traffic situation before doing so.

Paul Barnard

Not everyone is good with context.

DonkeyShow

Don't run into cars or have cars run into you. Eyeballs and a brain....use them. Take responsibility for your own safety.

Paul Barnard

It's funny that you post that. I have two riding playlists. One is high energy pump me up. The other is peaceful, soothing and meditative.

nomadmax 

Start with an easy one, look up "Fred".