PlanoFuji

Buy whatever you like. It will be your bike and liking will go a long way toward actually using it.

irwin7638

+1. 650B is becoming a more prominent tire size. Look at the Soma Express, it's a Panaracer Pasela TG with reinforced sidewalls and a kevlar (folding) bead.

Marc

corwin1968

Since you are a local and can test ride a Sam (I assume you already have) and like the ride, I see no reason not to buy one. I would ride other bikes first just for comparisons sake but if in the end, you like the Sam, get it.

Johnny Alien

I love mine. I say go for it.

Booger1

You can buy a custom,hand made,Cro-Mo Rodriguez touring frame for $1400.00.....Made in U.S.A......made to your specs.....$1200 for one off the shelf.

irwin7638

Thanks, that's the first time I have heard of them, every other custom builder I have seen is charging 2k and up.

Marc

nun

IMHO Rivendell owners are not very objective. They are fans of an ethos and sometimes their opinion of the bikes needs to be taken with a "pinch of salt". I own 3 Rivs. I like the Ram and the Quickbeam, but I'm not a fan of the Atlantis....it's a bit sluggish and I might sell it. So you'll get a nice bike if you buy a RIvendell, but there are plenty of cheaper places to buy a bike that you'll probably like just as much.

dwmckee

I just built up a Co-Motion Cascadia (version of the Nor'Wester) and I love the feel. Made in USA too. They build an outstanding bike and custom sizing is just a couple hundred more...

irwin7638

As Grant Petersen says on his website, "there are lots of really good bikes out there, but if you really kinda, sorta, want or gotta have a lugged frame...."
I paraphrased.

Marc

JAG410

Even the US made Rivendell bikes use their cast lugs...that are made in Taiwan. As a long time Riv fan and hopeful future owner, I struggled with the US/TW built decision myself. I don't think it matters either way. Taiwan built frames these days are exceptional.

Six jours

IMO most bicycle purchases are not terribly objective. Sometimes we do have some specific need and we buy a bicycle to fulfill that need, without thought to anything else. But most of the time, I suspect most of us are buying bicycles at least partly on how they look and feel and match our "ethos". Frankly, if that weren't true, every Rivendell rider out there would have opted instead for some mass-produced sport-touring frame welded up in China. But somehow that sort of thing doesn't tickle most of us.

So I guess if I have to, I'll amend my statement to read "If you like what Rivendell offers, then you'll like what Rivendell offers. If you don't, then you shouldn't buy one."

late

Gunnar is Waterford's 'budget' line. Great bikes. The Grand Tour is 700c
but for a few bucks more they'll make one for you in 650b.


https://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/grand-tour/

nun

Ethos comes into most bike purchases be it Rivendell or Specialized, but Rivendell sort of specialize in it. The bikes are beautiful and ride nicely, but there's a lot of statement too. I bought my Rambouillet to do lightweight touring because I was familiar with the style from back in the 1970s when I last bought a bike so I liked the look and a sport tourer was what I wanted. However, as I got a bit of experience I just didn't buy into GP's luddite world. So I bought a Cervelo RS in a very objective way to replace the Ram and it's by far the most comfortable and most fun of my bikes.

There's nothing wrong with a Rivendell, the OP won't be disappointed with how it looks or rides, but I'd avoid 650b and be flexible about the components he puts on it.

Chris Pringle

The guys at R+E Cycles (AKA Rodriguez Bikes) will work with you to get your frameset spec'd exactly how you want it (wheel size, brake type, geometry) in the color of your choice. You can buy components from them, buy them online (new or used) and have them shipped to them for assembly. Frame made of Reynolds 725 and 100% made in Seattle, USA. I don't know what else one could ask for.

Our two custom Rodriguez bikes:

SlowAndSlower

Wow I cannot remember when Japanese bikes were ever looked down on. Some of the finest touring bikes were the Fuji Americas ca 1970-80's.


To the OP The Soma Stanyan is a nice lugged bike:

Six jours

I get to wondering if it's even possible to be objective about bicycles. For instance, I have never heard anyone buy the latest expensive carbon bling and then say "Yeah, it's not so hot". Same goes for $300 laser-guided bike fits, $250 big-name bib shorts, and so on.

Frankly, it seems to me that we generally buy a bicycle based on whatever our imaginations tell us the bicycle is going to be for us, and then go out and use it until our imaginations decide we need something else. So for a while the bicycle is everything our imaginations told us it would be, and then at some point, it isn't. Meanwhile, the actual bicycle just sat there being the same thing it always was.

So the next amendment: "If you imagine you'll like what Rivendell offers, then you'll like what Rivendell offers, at least until your imagination moves on to the next thing. Like a Cervelo, maybe."

Edit - from a completely objective standpoint, 650b offers one very significant benefit: wide, lightweight tires of "race" construction which have great road feel, fantastic cornering traction, reasonable lifespan and puncture resistance, and minimal-to-no toe overlap. I just don't understand the pushback the diameter receives.

Alekhine

Agree. There was an excellent thread on this maybe 7 or 8 years ago where Bekologist had me laughing my arse off. When I lived in CA, some of the Riv owners I met were outright cultish. I used to be a Riv Reader subscriber and I can see why: Grant sells - as you say - an ethos, and he hits the sweet spot for people (I am one of them, but not a Riv fan in particular) who miss certain old-fashioned things like classic aesthetics and love of both hand-crafting and the many "retro" designs that didn't need to disappear, weren't necessarily inferior, and yet were replaced by the sci-fi bew bew plastic CAD-designed engineering we see today. (I despise your Cervelo Star Trek bicycle in the looks department, for instance, no offence.)

I like Riv bikes okay. Smart designs for the purpose and I can't think of too many better things to say about a bike frame than that, but they are a definite boutique product and I don't consider them super special. How much the frame design is important compared to graphics/curly lugs and GP idolatry for various Riv fans I can't say, but oh boy, some of those I've met...oof. They remind me of Harley riders.

I'd much rather have a custom for the money - seeing as how a custom is you telling a frame-maker exactly what you want, up to and including copying any particular features of any Riv frame like oversized head tube, cranked out stays, etc. Even a semi-custom like a Waterford* I'd take over a Riv pre-built.

If I were in the market for another frame and was fine with a non-custom (I'm not; my custom is nearly perfect for me because it was mostly designed by me), I'd be checking out Hillary Stone's site and eBay too. There are used frames from the UK in particular that are just lovely, many of them totally meant for touring of various types, complete with the fancy lugs and old world graphics, etc, and they are way cheaper than buying a Riv off the peg. This route takes patience though, and ideally with some of the 1950s-70s bikes one might want to do a restoration project, which adds to price.

*Edit: Or not! Holy moly, Waterfords went up in price quite a bit since last I checked.

skookum

I had an old Peugeot from the 70s that I bought when I was in junior high school. Steel wheels, wing nuts instead of quick releases, simplex derailleurs. The lowest end, entry level European road bike of the era. I sold it to my Italian neighbour in the mid 80s, for more than the original purchase price because
" It isn't Japanese crap, its not made of that cheap white metal."

Riv bikes definitely occupy a unique niche in the bike world. If they appeal to you, by all means get one. If not, there are plenty of good bikes out there,as this thread shows.

nun

...the thing is you can't see your bike when you are riding it. The Cervelo RS rides better than my Rivendell bikes and when I'm climbing and descending that becomes very important.

Alekhine

Oh, sure. Use your favorite tool to get the job done, absolutely. I like a certain aesthetic and my tastes in that regard should be taken no more seriously than if we were disagreeing on pizza toppings, but it is a separate issue from ride quality. My Bike Friday NWT actually rides a little bit more comfortably than my Mercian custom (different riding positions), and it's ugly as hell comparatively. Still, the Mercian beats it in almost every other way, so it gets top ride priority unless I'm in distant lands.

nun

Yes, utility wins out over looks for me. I have a bike with a front basket that is great for shopping. It has 1x6 gearing and albatross bars and works nicely for the flat trip to the shops and to carry back the a couple of bags and it's upright position is good for riding in the city; I'd hate to tour on it though. I've been thinking of a folding bike for touring, but I'd have to do a serious test ride to see if the fold was worth it.

Six jours

I can see my bikes just fine when I'm riding them. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right direction.

But I rode carbon bikes when the concept of carbon bikes was brand new. And frankly, the only thing those bikes offered was light weight. In pretty much every other way, they sucked. So there's a part of my brain that still expects carbon bikes to be underwhelming, and so whenever I ride one, they - surprise! - strike me as underwhelming. The flip side is that I hang on every word Jan Heine writes, so when I throw a leg over an old French steel rando, I expect to be dazzled. And, surprise, I usually am.

So, next iteration: "A bike will probably be whatever you expect it to be." That may be why the carbon sellers spend so much on advertising - and why riders of carbon bikes so often sound like marketing guys.

Alekhine

Unless you do a lot of airplane travel* I'd stick with what sounds like an already excellent bicycle collection. If you do travel by plane a lot, I think the BF configuration with the trail-able suitcase is easily the most hassle-free option since you can assemble it and ride off right from the destination airport in minutes, although someone here (I forget who) did some sort of S&S setup with a bag/soft box that juuust fits the thing, and that looked very compelling. My NWT is a nice little machine, surprisingly hardy, a perfect fit, and it has taken me to some very neat places, but it sits all folded up in its Samsonite case 99% of the time.

*Caveat: There is another purpose for the BF/suitcase bit, but I've never made use of it. I corresponded with a fellow from South America briefly who had a portable/deconstructable kayak, which he would store in the suitcase while he was riding. If he reached a river he wanted to row on, he would do a sort of leap frog routine between bicycling and kayaking - unpack boat, pack bike and store on boat; unpack bike, pack boat and store on bike, etc, representing a neat self-contained amphibious transportation motif.

base

I love steel bikes and own three rando style bikes, including an Alex Singer, an Atlantis and a bunch of old Miyatas. They are great bikes for a range of duties, and are very practical. They do well on long rides in varying conditions and can be pretty quick for a "heavy" bike.

But just recently I bought a Trek Domane. Mainly out of curiosity as I've never owned or ridden a CF bike before. Oh my god. What an amazing bike. Apart from the incredibly low weight (about 5 kilos lighter than a light rando bike), the bike is very supple with 25mm tyres on it. It floats over potholes and bumps almost as well as a 650b x 42 bike. It doesn't plane quite as well as a very light steel frame, but when you're in the mood to pedal hard it responds.

corwin1968

I am and always will be a fan of Grant Petersen and RBW but I find Jan Heine's perspective much more compelling. I loosely categorize Grant as "utility" oriented while Jan is more "performance" oriented. It's a broad generalization but I think it mostly fits and most riders probably lean toward one viewpoint over the other. I'm an uber-clyde so Grant's bikes probably suit me better but I would much rather be able to ride a light, thin-tubed, 650B bike with fat racing tires.