Bought a frame to build a fixie out of
03-29-18, 06:36 PM
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Bought a frame to build a fixie out of
Just bought this thing and the wheel in the back for $20. Things got rust on it, needs to be cleaned and repainted (gonna keep the maroon purple colour) but overall it’s pretty solid! bottom bracket needs to be replaced cuz the thing is rusted (it still turns pretty well surprisingly tho), gonna 90% probably change the breaks n just install front break, get another wheel, crankset and chain, etc etc.
Super hype!!
Super hype!!
03-30-18, 11:28 AM
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03-30-18, 03:15 PM
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Took it to a shop around the corner (I also might have scored a job there!!) to get the bottom bracket checked out. Guy took it out, showed me the measurements n stuff, cleaned it out and threw some lubricant in there n then put it back in. Said it was fine to use, but it’s a wider axle (120), and if I wanted to build a fixie out of it I might want to get a narrower one, but ultimately depends on the crankset n how close to the frame it is. So that’s awesome!
Brakes are coming off tho, pain in the neck tryna get the rear caliper off (front was relatively easy, albeit time consuming but). Definitely gonna be replacing the brake(s)... but a starts a start i guess
Got some rust remover, gonna do that tmmw (or maybe just later?? Depending on when I finish the brakes) and I’ll get a couple cans of spray paint n redo that. All in all, pretty good day!
Update: Pic is after I took the brakes off
Also, gonna clean the rust off and paint it on Monday. My friend is letting me borrow her backyard
Brakes are coming off tho, pain in the neck tryna get the rear caliper off (front was relatively easy, albeit time consuming but). Definitely gonna be replacing the brake(s)... but a starts a start i guess
Got some rust remover, gonna do that tmmw (or maybe just later?? Depending on when I finish the brakes) and I’ll get a couple cans of spray paint n redo that. All in all, pretty good day!
Update: Pic is after I took the brakes off
Also, gonna clean the rust off and paint it on Monday. My friend is letting me borrow her backyard
Last edited by Mars_; 03-30-18 at 05:34 PM.
04-14-18, 04:36 PM
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04-15-18, 12:24 PM
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Yea it is a motobecane! Not French threaded BB tho, English. Took it out, took the handlebars and fork out. Gonna brush it down n get the rust off. If it doesn’t rain tmmw I’ll take it and paint it over at my friends house. Haven’t been able to work on it cuz of school and vacation (went out of state) so hopefully I’ll be doing stuff now!
Because British threads are slightly smaller and the pitch is pretty close, you can force a British/ISO thread BB cup into a Swiss threaded BB shell, but it is not a good idea. Please don't. It will thread in easily about three or four threads and then you will have to force it, which will damage the threads either on your cup or your frame because of the pitch difference.
04-15-18, 12:55 PM
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Probably not British thread. Might seem that way if the fixed cup is LH thread, but it's more likely to be Swiss thread, as Motobecane used Swiss thread BBs on many bikes. I assume the steerer is French thread? If so, lay the cup thread against the steerer thread and if the pitches line up, and your fixed cup is LH thread, it's Swiss.
Because British threads are slightly smaller and the pitch is pretty close, you can force a British/ISO thread BB cup into a Swiss threaded BB shell, but it is not a good idea. Please don't. It will thread in easily about three or four threads and then you will have to force it, which will damage the threads either on your cup or your frame because of the pitch difference.
Because British threads are slightly smaller and the pitch is pretty close, you can force a British/ISO thread BB cup into a Swiss threaded BB shell, but it is not a good idea. Please don't. It will thread in easily about three or four threads and then you will have to force it, which will damage the threads either on your cup or your frame because of the pitch difference.
04-15-18, 02:22 PM
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It is. But it's also French and Swiss.
Well, to be perfectly accurate, the British BB shell width spec was originally 2⅝" or 67mm. French and Swiss are actually 68mm, so everyone rounds up British to that and it works fine. The older the British bike, the more likely is will be to have a 2⅝" shell though.
But in any case, the threading doesn't care what the width is or vice versa. British thread shells come in 2⅝" or 2⅞" (68 or 73mm.) I've seen Italian threaded BB shells in 65, 70, and 74mm widths.
Can't/won't answer that because we don't know the threading. Please CHECK THE BB THREAD FIRST before you go buying something that might not work.
If your frame turns out to have Swiss threads, and if the above BB is a loose-ball BB, you might be able to use the spindle in your original cups, if they're in good condition. The other choice you have for a BB spindle that length is Phil Wood. They still make Swiss thread retaining rings for their BBs.
Well, to be perfectly accurate, the British BB shell width spec was originally 2⅝" or 67mm. French and Swiss are actually 68mm, so everyone rounds up British to that and it works fine. The older the British bike, the more likely is will be to have a 2⅝" shell though.
But in any case, the threading doesn't care what the width is or vice versa. British thread shells come in 2⅝" or 2⅞" (68 or 73mm.) I've seen Italian threaded BB shells in 65, 70, and 74mm widths.
If your frame turns out to have Swiss threads, and if the above BB is a loose-ball BB, you might be able to use the spindle in your original cups, if they're in good condition. The other choice you have for a BB spindle that length is Phil Wood. They still make Swiss thread retaining rings for their BBs.
04-15-18, 03:28 PM
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Velo Orange also has an option for Swiss thread bottom brackets. It's actually a threadless bottom bracket, but is supposed to fit BB shells with English/French/Swiss/ruined threading too.
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ottom-brackets
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ottom-brackets
04-15-18, 05:06 PM
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It is. But it's also French and Swiss.
Well, to be perfectly accurate, the British BB shell width spec was originally 2⅝" or 67mm. French and Swiss are actually 68mm, so everyone rounds up British to that and it works fine. The older the British bike, the more likely is will be to have a 2⅝" shell though.
But in any case, the threading doesn't care what the width is or vice versa. British thread shells come in 2⅝" or 2⅞" (68 or 73mm.) I've seen Italian threaded BB shells in 65, 70, and 74mm widths.
Can't/won't answer that because we don't know the threading. Please CHECK THE BB THREAD FIRST before you go buying something that might not work.
If your frame turns out to have Swiss threads, and if the above BB is a loose-ball BB, you might be able to use the spindle in your original cups, if they're in good condition. The other choice you have for a BB spindle that length is Phil Wood. They still make Swiss thread retaining rings for their BBs.
Well, to be perfectly accurate, the British BB shell width spec was originally 2⅝" or 67mm. French and Swiss are actually 68mm, so everyone rounds up British to that and it works fine. The older the British bike, the more likely is will be to have a 2⅝" shell though.
But in any case, the threading doesn't care what the width is or vice versa. British thread shells come in 2⅝" or 2⅞" (68 or 73mm.) I've seen Italian threaded BB shells in 65, 70, and 74mm widths.
Can't/won't answer that because we don't know the threading. Please CHECK THE BB THREAD FIRST before you go buying something that might not work.
If your frame turns out to have Swiss threads, and if the above BB is a loose-ball BB, you might be able to use the spindle in your original cups, if they're in good condition. The other choice you have for a BB spindle that length is Phil Wood. They still make Swiss thread retaining rings for their BBs.
Velo Orange also has an option for Swiss thread bottom brackets. It's actually a threadless bottom bracket, but is supposed to fit BB shells with English/French/Swiss/ruined threading too.
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ottom-brackets
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ottom-brackets
the rd2 crankset needs a 103mm square tapered BB, which that Velo orange option is fine for, but its a bit pricey compared to an FSA BB i was looking at which is 68x103mm
Last edited by Mars_; 04-15-18 at 05:11 PM.
04-15-18, 07:18 PM
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This chart should help you:
Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Glossary Bo - Bz
I highly doubt a vintage French Motobecane would have an English threaded bottom bracket, but I'm no vintage expert. I've just never heard of anything like that. Swiss or French is a lot more likely.
04-15-18, 11:55 PM
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BB threads are defined by diameter, pitch, and direction, not necessarily width. Swiss thread is 35mm outside diameter, 1mm pitch, and has a LH thread fixed cup. French is the same diameter and pitch, but has a RH thread fixed cup. British is 1.370" diameter and 24 threads per inch, and a LH thread fixed cup. In metric units, the British thread is 34.80mm diameter and 1.058mm pitch. So as you can see, the British thread diameter is smaller enough and the pitch close enough that it can be forced in. But it's far less than ideal, and not recommended.
If your shop doesn't understand that, they might not be the right shop to help you with this project. That's fine, but I'd recommend finding a shop that knows that Swiss threads exist, and what they mean. Ask them.
It's easier to assess thread pitch and direction than diameter of internal threads, and more conclusive. Once you know thread pitch and direction, it's settled. As I mentioned, you can use any known metric thread, 1.0mm pitch thread to check your BB thread. If you don't know what your steerer actually is, then use a hollow rear axle from any Shimano hub, or a cantilever brake mounting bolt, both will be 1.0mm pitch. Lay it on the threads of the BB shell. If it settles into the threads perfectly and doesn't rock, it's either French or Swiss. If not, it's British.
If you find it's metric thread, then shine a flashlight into the BB shell and see which way the thread winds. Or use a pick to trace the thread and see which way it winds. A standard RH thread will turn clockwise to tighten the part. A LH thread will turn counter-clockwise to tighten the part.
It's possible the original BB was replaced with a British thread one already. Though I can't officially recommend replacing it with another British thread BB, the damage may be done to the frame already. Putting another British thread one in might make it worse, might not.
You can do it cheap and wrong, or less cheap and right. But let me repeat, find out what the thread situation actually is, then make an informed decision. Don't get all balled up about the money until you know what you're dealing with. You're only $20 and some time into the job so far.
04-16-18, 10:07 AM
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If you have thread gauges, you can check the thread spec directly. If not, thread spec is often indicated on the bottom bracket cups, albeit sometimes in an obscure manner, especially on older French cups:
Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition
04-16-18, 10:48 AM
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Yea it is a motobecane! Not French threaded BB tho, English. Took it out, took the handlebars and fork out. Gonna brush it down n get the rust off. If it doesn’t rain tmmw I’ll take it and paint it over at my friends house. Haven’t been able to work on it cuz of school and vacation (went out of state) so hopefully I’ll be doing stuff now!
04-16-18, 11:45 AM
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BB threads are defined by diameter, pitch, and direction, not necessarily width. Swiss thread is 35mm outside diameter, 1mm pitch, and has a LH thread fixed cup. French is the same diameter and pitch, but has a RH thread fixed cup. British is 1.370" diameter and 24 threads per inch, and a LH thread fixed cup. In metric units, the British thread is 34.80mm diameter and 1.058mm pitch. So as you can see, the British thread diameter is smaller enough and the pitch close enough that it can be forced in. But it's far less than ideal, and not recommended.
It's easier to assess thread pitch and direction than diameter of internal threads, and more conclusive. Once you know thread pitch and direction, it's settled. As I mentioned, you can use any known metric thread, 1.0mm pitch thread to check your BB thread. If you don't know what your steerer actually is, then use a hollow rear axle from any Shimano hub, or a cantilever brake mounting bolt, both will be 1.0mm pitch. Lay it on the threads of the BB shell. If it settles into the threads perfectly and doesn't rock, it's either French or Swiss. If not, it's British.
If you find it's metric thread, then shine a flashlight into the BB shell and see which way the thread winds. Or use a pick to trace the thread and see which way it winds. A standard RH thread will turn clockwise to tighten the part. A LH thread will turn counter-clockwise to tighten the part.
If the FSA has aluminum cups, and you thread it into a Swiss BB shell, you will damage the threads on the BB, not the frame. That's worse. The BB might not stay tight in the frame.
It's easier to assess thread pitch and direction than diameter of internal threads, and more conclusive. Once you know thread pitch and direction, it's settled. As I mentioned, you can use any known metric thread, 1.0mm pitch thread to check your BB thread. If you don't know what your steerer actually is, then use a hollow rear axle from any Shimano hub, or a cantilever brake mounting bolt, both will be 1.0mm pitch. Lay it on the threads of the BB shell. If it settles into the threads perfectly and doesn't rock, it's either French or Swiss. If not, it's British.
If you find it's metric thread, then shine a flashlight into the BB shell and see which way the thread winds. Or use a pick to trace the thread and see which way it winds. A standard RH thread will turn clockwise to tighten the part. A LH thread will turn counter-clockwise to tighten the part.
If the FSA has aluminum cups, and you thread it into a Swiss BB shell, you will damage the threads on the BB, not the frame. That's worse. The BB might not stay tight in the frame.
As @Ghrumpy notes, shell width is not a reliable indicator of thread spec.
If you have thread gauges, you can check the thread spec directly. If not, thread spec is often indicated on the bottom bracket cups, albeit sometimes in an obscure manner, especially on older French cups:
Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition
If you have thread gauges, you can check the thread spec directly. If not, thread spec is often indicated on the bottom bracket cups, albeit sometimes in an obscure manner, especially on older French cups:
Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition
Also, i don't think i know the difference between a fixed cup and adjustable cup?
Also, beautiful bike! Love the rims on those wheels
Nice work fixing it up 
Last edited by Mars_; 04-16-18 at 11:57 AM.
04-16-18, 02:43 PM
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If someone jammed a British thread BB into a French thread shell, that will jank the threads even more than in a Swiss thread shell. But a French thread cup will probably still thread in. Lube it well. Make sure it stays straight. (If it's a LH thread shell, a RH thread cup will never be able to get straight.) When you encounter resistance, push into it about ⅛ of a turn, then back it off, repeat until it's as smooth as it can get.
Yes, that is very true. I'm glad your enthusiasm is greater than your frustration!
04-16-18, 06:04 PM
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All BBs have RH thread on the left (non-drive) side of the bike. French is RH on both sides, Swiss is LH on the right (drive) side of the bike.
If someone jammed a British thread BB into a French thread shell, that will jank the threads even more than in a Swiss thread shell. But a French thread cup will probably still thread in. Lube it well. Make sure it stays straight. (If it's a LH thread shell, a RH thread cup will never be able to get straight.) When you encounter resistance, push into it about ⅛ of a turn, then back it off, repeat until it's as smooth as it can get.
Fixed cup is on the drive side, adjustable cup on the non-drive side. Of course this only applies to adjustable BBs. BB cartridges just have cups.
Yes, that is very true. I'm glad your enthusiasm is greater than your frustration!
If someone jammed a British thread BB into a French thread shell, that will jank the threads even more than in a Swiss thread shell. But a French thread cup will probably still thread in. Lube it well. Make sure it stays straight. (If it's a LH thread shell, a RH thread cup will never be able to get straight.) When you encounter resistance, push into it about ⅛ of a turn, then back it off, repeat until it's as smooth as it can get.
Fixed cup is on the drive side, adjustable cup on the non-drive side. Of course this only applies to adjustable BBs. BB cartridges just have cups.
Yes, that is very true. I'm glad your enthusiasm is greater than your frustration!
but ya it does get frustrating especially when trying to do stuff like unscrewing a super rusted nut or taking off pain in the neck brake calipers but Meh! its fun anyway when u get it done ^^
04-17-18, 01:58 AM
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One side has RH the other has LH. Was kinda hard to follow with a pick tho, so i might just go a route of getting a threadless BB that above poster had linked... It's type expensive ($70, plus $76 for the crankset) compared to the $15 one but, screw it, I don't wanna buy a BB and not be able to even screw it in because the threading is janked.
but ya it does get frustrating especially when trying to do stuff like unscrewing a super rusted nut or taking off pain in the neck brake calipers but Meh! its fun anyway when u get it done ^^
but ya it does get frustrating especially when trying to do stuff like unscrewing a super rusted nut or taking off pain in the neck brake calipers but Meh! its fun anyway when u get it done ^^
04-17-18, 10:25 AM
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Are those brakes DiaCompe Grand Compes? If so, they are quite decent brakes. I raced them on my '76 Fuji Pro. Drawback was that I had to keep in mind the guy behind me didn't have my braking power. (The Grand Compes were much better stoppers than the Campy NRs of that era.)
If that's what you've got, I'd keep 'em. I would change out the levers; not because they don't work but because I hated back then the exposed cables and how they blocked one of my favorite hand positions. Modern Tektro levers will work just fine with those calipers. I have that set-up except the calipers are SunTour of roughly that era on one bike and the stopping is very good.
Ben
If that's what you've got, I'd keep 'em. I would change out the levers; not because they don't work but because I hated back then the exposed cables and how they blocked one of my favorite hand positions. Modern Tektro levers will work just fine with those calipers. I have that set-up except the calipers are SunTour of roughly that era on one bike and the stopping is very good.
Ben
04-17-18, 06:19 PM
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I need to scrap some money together, get a job at a shop n all. Are those brakes DiaCompe Grand Compes? If so, they are quite decent brakes. I raced them on my '76 Fuji Pro. Drawback was that I had to keep in mind the guy behind me didn't have my braking power. (The Grand Compes were much better stoppers than the Campy NRs of that era.)
If that's what you've got, I'd keep 'em. I would change out the levers; not because they don't work but because I hated back then the exposed cables and how they blocked one of my favorite hand positions. Modern Tektro levers will work just fine with those calipers. I have that set-up except the calipers are SunTour of roughly that era on one bike and the stopping is very good.
Ben
If that's what you've got, I'd keep 'em. I would change out the levers; not because they don't work but because I hated back then the exposed cables and how they blocked one of my favorite hand positions. Modern Tektro levers will work just fine with those calipers. I have that set-up except the calipers are SunTour of roughly that era on one bike and the stopping is very good.
Ben
