Cycle365

Rim / tire size question here. I have an older (2005) Trek 520 which currently has 700x23c Bontrager Race Lite tires on Bontrager Maverick 622/559x18 rims. I need to replace the tires and would like to fit the bike with 28c-32c tires. Will a wider tire up to 32c fit on the aforementioned rims? I would like to replace these rims in the future, but would like to avoid that right now if possible. Appreciate your thoughts on fitting a wider tire on these rims. Thanks!

(And yes ... long time lurker, but this is my first post! :-)

TPL

Any tire marked 622 will fit

Moe Zhoost

You should be fine for 28-32 tire widths.

am8117

You might be after this:

https://www.schwalbe.com/files/schwa...en_2020_EN.pdf

But it's a recommendation only and ETRTO is a European organisation. Apparently tires behave differently on different continents.

Jokes aside, it was totally customary to get 35C tires on 14mm inner width rims on a CX bike right from factory before 2010. I did not like it because the shape of the tire and thus the contact patch looked somewhat too much round, but it did work and no it did not "float" on the road, however it caused the tire to also have "taller" profile which might be an issue with certain frames or fenders already installed.

Cycle365

Thanks to all for the prompt responses! Appreciate it.

Leisesturm

Actually, the OEM tire on that bicycle already is spec'd at 32c. It is hard to imagine 23c being on there now. Also the same rim could not simultaneously be 622 (28") and 559 (26") but the 18mm width sounds about right for a 32c tire, the 520 is a touring bike.

TPL

559 is the ERD

TPL

Tire widths do NOT ( should not ) use the designation 'C'

Width is simply stated in millimeters

The 'C' refers to one designation of 4 bead seat diameters that existed at one time ( years ago ) ....all were within a tire O.D. that was categorized / established as 700 =( A-B-C-D ) ....practically speaking, the only survivor is the 700c diameter

23 x 700c =

23c x 700 = confusing misrepresentation to be avoided

zaje

18mm will safely take tires up to 38-40mm width, I have 17mm rims and ride 38mm with no problems.

Cycle365

I agree. Was curious that it has 700x23 tires installed. I bought it used a few years ago so I imagine they were replaced at some time. I have ordered a pair of 700x32 so should be good to go. Thanks!

am8117

I can't remember the exact intricacies of the differences but you casually get e.g. 700x35C on a tire and that is practically e.g. 37-622.

I do remember the 700 was outer diameter including tire (estimated) while the 622 refers to the rim, the C was referring to profile (but all other types got extinct by now), but I do not remember why sometimes the e.g. 32C reflects into 32-622 tire but other times 35C is actually 37-622.

EDIT: See here, check the sizes table: https://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/marathon

scottfsmith

This format is never used.. it is always "700 x 23c". "23c" is just an abbreviation for this cutting off the prefix, seems simple enough. 'copter, 'bot, etc.

Why is it not 700c x 23 like it should be? I have no idea.

Iride01 

C after the width typically means the tire is only to be used on hooked or crochet type rims which most have been for the past few decades. But back in the days of Chicago Schwinn's and now today for some tubeless tires we also have smooth bead seat rims with no hook.

But there is no guaranty that the the manufacturer adheres to ISO standards completely. So the particular mfr might have their own idea what that means for their product. Nor are they obligated to put a C on it if the tire requires crochet/hooked rims.... AFAIK.

djb

The schwalbe chart shown is a good reference.
For another reliable example, I have toured extensively with 50mm tires on 17mm inner width rims, fully loaded with four panniers, handlebar bag and a rack pack on top of the rear panniers (not lightly loaded is what I'm getting at) with no problems at all.
On all kinds of surfaces at all speeds from 5kph to 80.

TPL

Why is it not 700c x 23 like it should be? I have no idea..... this is the question posed by a previous poster

Very much for the same reason modern day tires are called 'clinchers'

Mistaken nomenclature that is somehow 'grandfathered' into existence ='clincher'

These current day tires are actually 'wired on' tires ....not 'clinchers'

'Clincher' tires were used back in the day of the Wright brothers

Same goes for mingling the terms 'freewheel' and 'cassette' ....these parts are not interchangeable in any fashion ....2 distinctly very different parts

Same goes for 'j-bend' spokes ....these are actually simply conventional 'spokes' ....the style of spoke that requires definitive qualification is 'straight pull' as these are not conventional spokes in any way, shape or form ....'j-bend' is a un-necessary definitive qualification = these are simply 'spokes' ....'straight pull' are the type of spokes that do require definitive qualification = 'straight pull' = non conventional

Same goes for 'back wheel' when referring to a 'rear wheel' ....go ahead, drive yourself crazy and look in the index of any bicycle industry suppliers catalog for 'back wheels' = ( these will NOT be found ) ....'rear wheel' = you bet ! ....ahh, easy !

Similarly, suppliers catalogs will not include doohickeys, thingamabobs or whatchamacallits

JohnDThompson 

While what you write is correct, even tire manufacturers use it incorrectly.

I wish tire and rim manufacturers would abandon the archaic size designations and simply use the standardized ISO/ETRTO size designations.

cyccommute 

Can’t be. The 559mm Maverick has an effective rim diameter of 542mm. That’s a 17mm difference. Assuming that the 622mm rim has the same profile, the ERD would be 605mm. The “622/559” designation seems to be some kind of mistake that keeps getting reprinted. There is a 559mm Maverick rim and a 622mm Maverick rim but they are not interchangeable.

cyccommute 

While technically true, the “C” does refer to a tire width or, more correctly, tire height. The A, B, C, D system was used in the French tire system. The idea was to have the same outside tire diameter using different tire heights. A 700A used a narrow 700mm (roughly) tall tire that used 642mm rim. A 700B used a slightly taller tire on a 635mm rim but with the same 700mm outside diameter. A 700C use a slightly taller tire on a 622mm rim and the 700D used the tallest (widest) tire on a 583mm rim. But, again, all of them were supposed to have a 700mm outside diameter. There are corresponding 650 to 400mm size ranges as well.

The “C” after the width is likely just a mistranslation of the whole system and is based on people not understanding the French system…which isn’t hard to do.

Frankly, I don’t know where this whole “outside diameter of the tire” measuring system came from. It’s really dumb and totally confusing. Large parts of my brain seems to be taken up by understanding all the stupid vagaries of tire sizing. I know soooo much more about everything if I didn’t have to remember which tires fit what rims

FastJake

Nomenclature peeing contests aside, any tire that will fit into your frame will work on those rims.

am8117

Why is it that 35C tires and above do not have matching mms specified anymore? 25C is 25mm, 28C is 28mm ... but 35C becomes suddenly 37mm, even as per label on the tire itself.

djb

yup that's it

cyccommute 

No idea. Widths of tires aren’t all that exact in the first place. Not all tires marked as 35 are 37mm wide. Not all tires marked 25mm are 25mm wide.

dabac

It made sense until manufacturers started making more than one size tire for each rim size.
As long as there only was one tire size for each rim size, the system worked fine to determine which wheels would work with a certain fork/frame.

cyccommute 

That’s only for the French system. Most all bicycle tires “sizes” are based on the outside diameter of some “standard tire” which is seldom really standard nor available. A 27” tire, for example, fits on a 630mm rim (24.8”). A tire would need to be 1.1” wide to make that a 27” outside diameter. That’s a relatively narrow tire for the time when 27” wheels were common. But there were many tire widths available for 27” tires.

am8117

Yes but with all that accounted for I wonder what was the difference in the French system to ETRTO. Yes the tire width could differ on different width rim, but I have to assume the manufacturer provides reference values for some standard rim say 19mm inner width of theirs. Whatever they use they either have different reference rim for the French system at 35mm and above (than when declaring ETRTO) values. Or the French system has some impact on how the width is calculated.