ncracing72

I honestly think this frame is a Friday night special I have scanned lots and lots of vintage Pinarellos and have come up short. There will be elements that check all the boxes then, one thing will be off.
I welcome any suggestions of what I have and rough timeframe (I'm thinking early 80's). The chrome work is quite nice and honestly one reason I bought this on a whim - it would cost me double to rechrome it.

Don't be mislead by the decals -I've already actually changed most of those out. And apologies in advance for the photos, I'm new to posting on this site and am not sure how best to post thumbnails.

I'm really curious for your feedback (or confirmation that I possibly have a one-off that that they finished up late one night haha)

delicious

I'd guess later '80s, based on the "Pinarello" dropouts. It might be a Montello, but I believe those typically had a different bottom bracket & chainstay bridge configuration.

Really, the model name doesn't matter much -- what differentiated Pinarello road frames from this period was the tubing and paint.

Can you weigh it? Are there straight/helical ridges in the frame tubes / fork steerer tube? That's the (relatively) important stuff.

Robvolz 

chrome looks damn good to me.

But, if you really need, I know a place that does bikes for $200

ncracing72

Completely agree - the chainstay bridge is actually the most "unfinished" looking part on this bike - it doesn't have the typical lugwork that've seen (and I've never seen a Montello with a chainstay bridge). I'll see if I can weigh it and check on the other elements you mentioned when I get back home. Thank you for your input!!

unworthy1

well that's a beauty of a chrome Pinarello frame, congrats on owning it!
Only other clue, but one for the Pina experts: the BB shell is clearly a "custom casting" of a Cinelli SCM shell which has the "CINELLI" logo replaced with Pinarello branding, the single oval slot and distinctive "strap" cable guide they liked, also the piercings on the chatnstay socket tops (which are known as "can-openers" and distinguish this SCM version from the later Cinelli CCM shells). So most folks say the CCM was introduced "around 1984-5" exact date is unclear, question is did Pina have a big bin full of these "older shells" so they used them into later years, or...?
(here's a screengrab of a Cinelli catalog page that shows BOTH SCM and CCM were being offered at the same time, plus the "Spoiler" shell was on the preceding page! This catalog has the Flying C logo. All very mysterious.)

Andrew_G 

I owned a Pinarello Record bicycle which I bought as a new frameset in September of 1979. I rode it for 13 years. My frameset's mechanical features matched those of my 1979 Pinarello catalog.

I estimate the date of your frameset to be 1982-1983, based on the following:

My frame had a semi sloping fork crown, not fully sloping like yours. And the chainstay bridge of mine was round tubing with chainstay gusset plates, not the square ended cast piece which your frameset has. My frame had exterior routing of the rear brake cable, with three braze ons on the TT.

Your frameset has the same lugs and bottom bracket shell as mine did. Later frames had lugs which 'swept back' in the upper corners. Later frames also had the fully sloping fork crown and the BB shell had the chainstay socket points on the sides, not on the top & bottom.

My late 1981/early 1982 Pinarello catalog (the front and back covers feature Giovanni Battaglin winning the 1981 Giro) shows both Battaglin's frame and the catalog frames having the semi-sloping fork crown. Battaglin's frame had exterior routing of the rear brake cable, with TT braze ons. That catalog also shows most models having TT braze ons for the rear brake housing. However, two models have internal routing of the rear brake cable: the Prestige S, built with ultralight Columbus KL tubes, and the TreCime, which is a Treviso type frame but the built up bike uses a triple chainring Campy crankset.

My 1981-82 catalog shows the same frameset (with 3 TT braze ons) used as Super Record, Record Special and Record bicycles. Those framesets used SL tubing. The Treviso model had lower grade Columbus tubing and much less chrome plating.

Although Pinarello frames were fully chromed and then painted over, I don't recall ever seeing a Record frameset which was fully chromed, without paint. I therefore choose to call your frameset a Record Custom.

On VeloBase, there is a gold plated Pinarello bike which is cited to be 1984. I believe this is the Montello model, since it has the fully sloping fork crown, the swept back lugs and the bridgeless bottom bracket shell.
(https://velobase.com/Velos/ViewModel...e46&PgOffset=0)

If you do a web search on 'Alexi Grewal Pinarello' you can find images of his 1984 bike. There is also a 1984 advertisement from Gita touting the Montello model with the bridgeless BB shell and internal routing of the rear brake cable.
(https://lh6.ggpht.com/_hSZo5vjiPmQ/R...wal%201985.JPG

The images of Grewal's bike further confirm that your frameset is pre-1984.

Your frameset is superb. Very well done!




Andrew G.

ncracing72

Wow! I'm always blown away with the level of knowledge here. This is so impressive. I have a bit of a fondness for early/mid 80's Pinarellos as I raced a bright red Treviso (sponsor bike) in France. I was poor at the time and it was nicer than anything I could have bought back in the US.

bikingshearer 

Where might that be?

ncracing72

You're exactly correct - I've bounced around those same models and found all to be fairly similar but different. At one point I thought Record was the closest so when I bought decals I actually dubbed it a "Record" but your nomenclature is much better - Record Custom!! Which is what it will be until someone swoops in and tells me its a knock off

I did buy it from someone in Ukraine (if I recall correctly) and to be honest, that fork may not be original or the one that came with the bike.

As for the chrome - I do have a master Olympic art decor that I have sandblasted the paint off of and have found that although Colnago chromed the entire frame, it's not a "finished" chome, but more like a bumpy/orange peel type chrome for areas that would subsequently be painted. Do you know if Pinarellos are the same, or are they a smooth chrome finish under the paint of these types of frames.

Andrew_G 

I have not recently confirmed, but I recall (with high confidence) that the surfaces where chrome is visible are polished before plating. Surfaces which are painted over are generally not polished so that the paint has a rougher surface, which makes the paint adhere better.

So, I suspect that painted Pinarellos are not polished under the paint.

Chromovelato frames are the exception; the clear lacquer is applied over polished metal, which makes the finish delicate.

For reference, here's a photo of my 1979 Pinarello frameset, as restored by Joe Bell. The color is duPont Imron 'Light Continental Blue Metallic', which was the original color.




Andrew G.

georges1

very nice Pinarello steel frame

Andrew_G 

I suspect that the Pinarello fork is original. In any case, it appears to be perfectly sized for the frame. Note that without the headset, the bottom end of the threads is about 1cm above the top edge of the top head lug. When you install the headset, this will place the threads about even with the top edge of the top head lug. By putting the threads high, this helps ensure that the bottom end of the stem is not too close to the threads.

The placement of the Pinarello fork threads similarly matches what Roland Della Santa did for my 2017 DS frameset, which he made for me.

Andrew G.

P!N20

The serial number format in conjunction with the 'Pinarello' stamped dropouts suggest ~1987-1989.

As far as model, pretty sure the Treviso stuck with the 1010B dropouts.

As mentioned above, Montellos don't have a chainstay bridge.

ncracing72

Beautiful and rare color! My Guerciotti was painted by the importer, 10 Speed Drive in the US (which I am thankful for to this day). They used Dupont Imron and it still looks the part!

ncracing72

I suppose that would narrow w it down a bit - but you don't think it's a Treviso do you? I wasn't aware of any that had internal top tube routing. I'll take a look at the models they sold during that timeframe too.

P!N20

The Treviso model does exist with internal cable routing, not as common as with cable guides and not shown in the available catalogs.

A Treviso wouldn't be fully chromed though, so the question may be is it factory chrome or aftermarket?

Edit:

European models came with a lot more options. For example, you could get Montellos with SL tubing. That may lend more weight to a Treviso with internal cable routing.

The fork should have a serial number stamped on the steerer tube, see if it matches the serial number on the BB shell.

ncracing72

I've had a headset installed otherwise I would have run upstairs to check! But I have to agree with you - I'm starting to believe it was perhaps a custom order Treviso or one-off. Would be pretty neat if it was a Treviso since that's what I raced in France. Funny story about that - I had largely been racing crits in the mid Atlantic US and when I went to France to race over there the sponsor rolled out a beautiful red Treviso with full Campy SR. I noticed a triple chain ring and pointed and laughed at the guy who brought the bike. He just looked at me and smiled. I used that triple and was thankful I had it. Mind you, we were in the middle of the French Alps.

JohnDThompson 

Yes, it's a Pinarello-badged Cinelli bottom bracket shell. For customers placing large enough orders, Cinelli would pull out the tool plug with Cinelli branding and replace it with the customer's branding. They even did it for Trek in the early 80s.

ncracing72

So I guess that would make it a Cinellirello

Mr. 66

Most of the details match what I have, the differences being the badge and chainstay bridge.




I was thinking this red one is 86-87. I was thinking the fade paint jobs started about 87.

Im sure yours is a season or two newer than the red one.

unworthy1

thanks for this visual, JohnD. I'm almost tempted to start a "show us your..." thread to collect some more examples of these custom-cast Cinelli bits.

I'm sure I have seen a number of other (mostly Italian) branding replacements in the same shells, but can't recall which: maybe Battaglin and/or Guerciotti?

At least when they have it there's a slightly lower chance of another bike being mis-identified as a "Cinelli" in CL/eBay/FB/etc. ads by the uninitiated!

JohnDThompson 

French thread Cinelli shells had "S.C. FRANCE" cast into the branding:

Chombi1 

The OP's frame is also missing the two "P" pantographed triangular gussets on top of the BB shell, so it is not a match for a Montello. More likely a Record or a Treviso.

himespau 

Beauty.

Lattz

ncracing72 it's a really nice one, no question, I think it might be aftermarket chrome, but I also have vague memories of at least one kind of atypical Pinarello where only the lugs were painted (I eally don't remember if the owner peeled back the remainings of an earlier cromovelato) shoot a few pics of the brake bridge, so far it could be an early Asolo Cromor but many other things as well...

What is really an interesting part is the BB-chaninstay lug with the cutouts on top. These were used on the Record frames and Super Record Special full bike (also the catalog shows this detail to draw attention on it) but it didn't have internal TT cable route. 85 was a phasing period, the only model with internal cable was the Montello 85. And there is an interesting twist, they show a photo from the 84' olympics.... Alexi Grewal on internal cabled bike(s?)...



now look at this thread, I explicitly don't want to imply or let you believe, that yours is a team bike or anything like that, although it could be. But what's sure is that the BB lug fits the bill with internal cables as well: Road Test/Bike Review (1985) PINARELLO Arco LA84

are your tubes squashed/pinched in any ways?
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...o-la84.352957/