Electric Shifting - maybe not so relaible?
07-23-13, 03:48 PM
#76
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07-23-13, 03:50 PM
#77
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07-23-13, 04:09 PM
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The percentage of Porsche owners who race there cars (not just take them to the track but race them) where this would actually make a difference is extremely small. I suspect it's more to do with the lower skill level required with PDK. Same reason automatic transmissions have always been more popular in NA.
07-23-13, 04:11 PM
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The minute pros and racing come up, the argument has already been made. This is a product for people to whom thousandths of a second matter. There is nothing more Fredly than electronic shifting on a weekend club ride or anything other than a professional race. May as well take your Porsche Cayenne down to the weekend races at the local track for the smash-up derby.
07-23-13, 06:08 PM
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07-23-13, 06:09 PM
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07-23-13, 06:10 PM
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07-23-13, 06:16 PM
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ahhh fff it, electronic shifting on a bicycle is dumb and best suited for people with little mechanical apptitude. its the bicycle equivalent of a back up camera in your car. can't you just turn your head around and look? its a novelty technology probably engineered just to make more money....let the flaming commense.
07-23-13, 07:24 PM
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So there's been, what, 3 pages of posts in this thread without one single reference to the original topic? Ah, the 41...
07-23-13, 08:21 PM
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ahhh fff it, electronic shifting on a bicycle is dumb and best suited for people with little mechanical apptitude. its the bicycle equivalent of a back up camera in your car. can't you just turn your head around and look? its a novelty technology probably engineered just to make more money....let the flaming commense.
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07-23-13, 08:27 PM
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The percentage of Porsche owners who race there cars (not just take them to the track but race them) where this would actually make a difference is extremely small. I suspect it's more to do with the lower skill level required with PDK. Same reason automatic transmissions have always been more popular in NA.
In my case, I drive my car every day and commute in one of the most congested spots in the country in DC. The best I've gotten from a clutch is 45,000 miles.
07-23-13, 08:37 PM
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When you buy a performance sports car and PDK is an option, you would be foolish to not get it. It outperforms the manual in every aspect. I don't think skill level has much at all to do with it because most enthusiasts that spend that much money on a car know very well how to use a manual.
In my case, I drive my car every day and commute in one of the most congested spots in the country in DC. The best I've gotten from a clutch is 45,000 miles.
In my case, I drive my car every day and commute in one of the most congested spots in the country in DC. The best I've gotten from a clutch is 45,000 miles.
07-23-13, 08:47 PM
#89
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When you buy a performance sports car and PDK is an option, you would be foolish to not get it. It outperforms the manual in every aspect. I don't think skill level has much at all to do with it because most enthusiasts that spend that much money on a car know very well how to use a manual.
In my case, I drive my car every day and commute in one of the most congested spots in the country in DC. The best I've gotten from a clutch is 45,000 miles.
In my case, I drive my car every day and commute in one of the most congested spots in the country in DC. The best I've gotten from a clutch is 45,000 miles.
Regarding the original post, it's obvious that electronic shifting is going to be more reliable than mechanical and it's counterpart as far as technology is concerned in a modern car is the ECU, not the transmission type. However, you're not a retro-grouch if you prefer to stay mechanical. Mechanical shifting is more than good enough on it's own for most riders. As for me, I'll go to it when the price drops a bit and I see more overall benefit from it.
Last edited by knobd; 07-23-13 at 09:28 PM.
07-23-13, 09:28 PM
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Electronic shifting is a government agenda to track cyclist(little GPS chip implants in Di2). The big oil companies lobbied for this. Once everybody converts they will use the tracking devices to drone strike every last one of our kind.
07-23-13, 10:24 PM
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your mother was hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries! but yeah, its not my money so really, spend it how you like. but ill kindly opt out. 'murica!
07-23-13, 10:53 PM
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No! This is the 41. You must bend to my will and be browbeaten into agreement!
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07-24-13, 07:09 AM
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07-24-13, 07:26 AM
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The percentage of Porsche owners who race there cars (not just take them to the track but race them) where this would actually make a difference is extremely small. I suspect it's more to do with the lower skill level required with PDK. Same reason automatic transmissions have always been more popular in NA.
Porsche has determined PDK offers clear performance advantages.
the PDK is.
Bringing this back to Di2, I think it's very analagous. Modern dual clutch transmissions definitely perform better than manual. However, there are reasons some people still prefer manual's even though they give up something in performance.
Likewise electronic bike shifting performs better than mechanical, but there are reason's that some people still prefer mechanical.
For cars, we're past the point that you can argue manual performs better. For bikes, we're close to passing that point if we haven't.
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07-24-13, 07:37 AM
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And just to tie it all back together, I have no desire for a PDK (or similar) transmission, but money is the only reason I'm not running Di2. Can't wait until the premium drops even more. I hate futzing with cable tension.
07-24-13, 07:43 AM
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What DSG were you driving? The DSG in my e92 M3 was good for almost a second 0-60 in car and drivers tests and the shifting was sublime while being blindly fast. Ferrari California uses the same transmission as the M3. The PDK in the 911 is almost scary intuitive, and in manual mode, like 1/100th of a second slower that an F1 box? I can hardly imagine any benefit of a manual.
BTW - the BMW SMG's are not dual clutch, and they've always got horrible reviews compared with other automated manuals and DSG's (not trying to bash, just sayin...). But at the end of the day it's all personal.
07-24-13, 07:48 AM
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I own a 911S (991) with PDK and have driven identically equipped 911's on the track back to back, one with 7 speed manual, and one with PDK.
While there's a certain fun factor in rowing your own, there's just no doubt the PDK is a better performer.
just don't try to sell us that it performs better.
While there's a certain fun factor in rowing your own, there's just no doubt the PDK is a better performer.
just don't try to sell us that it performs better.
My point is simply that I PERSONALLY prefer a manual because just like shifting. And also in REAL WORLD driving the performance benefits are not nearly the same as when the car is on the track or hooked up to test equipment. And you'd have to admit that most people with these types of sports cars are not track racing. Therefore, although in track performances and equipment-measured testing a DSG will score higher and can be used for bragging rights, the differences are diminished/negligible in real world driving and I enjoy the involvement of a manual.
No argument here, just my preference.
07-24-13, 07:59 AM
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^ and that's why I think the dual clutch transmission is actually a good analogy for Di2.
Both perform better than the traditional systems they replace, but for reasons other than pure performance, some people will prefer the traditional approach.
Both perform better than the traditional systems they replace, but for reasons other than pure performance, some people will prefer the traditional approach.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
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You could hit a tree and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
07-24-13, 08:09 AM
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VW GTI - Don't get me wrong, the DSG definitely performs better - in the GTI it returns better mileage and better acceleration. But my point is (IMHO) the performance gains are measureable with test equipment, but negligible in REAL WORLD driving, and I personally enjoy shifting. That's all, to each his own!
BTW - the BMW SMG's are not dual clutch, and they've always got horrible reviews compared with other automated manuals and DSG's (not trying to bash, just sayin...). But at the end of the day it's all personal.
BTW - the BMW SMG's are not dual clutch, and they've always got horrible reviews compared with other automated manuals and DSG's (not trying to bash, just sayin...). But at the end of the day it's all personal.
I had a 2012 GTI DSG to haul my bikes around on before I got the X6. Loved that little car, the DSG in the GTI was good, but not great, oddly enough the programming in the Audi A3 which uses the same transmission was much more crisp.