McBTC

Every time I throw my road bike into the turtle of a SUV and drive to where its fun to take a spin, I live car-free– at least, for a while.

cooker

What is the point of this thread?

But before it gets closed - I find it fun to take a spin in lots of places I don't have to drive to. You're not car free in your situation - apparently you can't even enjoy bike riding without using a car too.

cooker

PS: I hope ILTB gets ****

McBTC

Realistically, living car-free in most instances probably is more like a person who quits smoking but still mooches cigarettes off his friends and less like a person who eschews modern conveniences and adopts the simple life while walking barefoot and wearing a peach-colored robe with the nail pairings of Bhagwan in his pocket...

ypsetihw

the only people I know personally who actually live car free are pretty hardcore about it. this one guy in particular has 4 bikes, one for every season, and rides upwards of 10k miles a year. he lives in a compact urban city center and basically refuses to leave the city limits except for long rides and centuries, which he does a couple times a week. he commutes rain or shine or snow every single day, and i've never even seen him in a car ever. when we have bike events 50 miles away from town, he leaves several hours early and rides.

my point is that there really are some people that are actually committed to the lifestyle.

cooker

And which are you saying is the "correct" way to do it?

If you read the description, this forum is about living car free or car-light and preferring to not use cars - it is not carholics anonymous where you must swear off cars altogether and you get a badge the longer you completely abstain and avoid "relapsing".

McBTC

I can see that. Apparently the Amish, for example, do not turn their noses up at all technology-- e.g.,




Rather weird lead tho...

cooker

I don't get why this forum an issue for you. What is it that somehow agitates you and compels you to post what seem like pro-car troll posts and threads in the living car-free forum? Do you just like being contrary or is there some perception that your life and character are being threatened by what is discussed here, or do you have some unrecognized guilt about not living up to some standard you didn't even realize you had set for yourself and the discussions here create psychological discomfort? (okay, that last part was me trolling a bit ) But seriously - why?

cooker

Sounds a lot like the rest of us and cars, eventually.

McBTC

I am discomfited by ideologically motivated hidden agendas of global warming alarmists. I'm pro-bike but that should not threaten those who love their automobiles and vice-versa.

wolfchild

Some of the best mountain biking trails and other recreational riding opportunities are outside the city and require loading your bicycle into your vehicle and driving.

wolfchild

The point of this thread is that LCF is impractical for people who are very active and enjoy traveling beyond the boundaries of their neighbourhood.

McBTC

And of course there's the surfer enjoying the LCF lifestyle on the beach while biking to the university for a semester -- plenty of time to study and enjoy beer and peanuts -- and perhaps picking up some extra units taking some summer classes in Paris, getting there cheaply on a charter flight across the Atlantic. I'm certainly not against people enjoying the lifestyle while they can but most times living involves more than--e.g., beer and peanuts.

cooker

The point of this forum is to figure out how to fix that.

Jim from Boston

My personal situation is that I have so little time to cycle as much as I want to, that it's not worth the time to drive somewhere, unless a special event. Fortunately cycling in Metro Boston itself always beckons with good routes in every direction. I mostly do my miles by extending my commute.

Just last week our family went to Michigan for a few days, and I brought two bikes, road and beater, via a rented minivan. That works well for me since I don't (not just dislike) flying. The rest of the family flew, so I had plenty of room, and carried their luggage as well. So I guess for me that the point of this thread is that it was an opportunity to respond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…what I have gotten directly from BF [include]...:

B. Carfree

I know the situation varies from locale to locale, but where I'm currently living is similar to other places I've lived on the West Coast. The best mountain biking is forty miles east via the fastest route. It's all easily done by bicycle and I have done it when the urge for single track tickled me. The second best is twenty miles southwest of me, also readily reached by bicycle and which I have also ridden to in order to ride on it. However, as far as I know I'm the only person in the county who has ridden a bike to go single-tracking; all the rest drive their bikes there.

I don't point it out for brownie points. I'm just tired of people saying something requires a car when it provably does not. I'll grant that you did modify by saying that "some of the best...", and it may well be true that there are a few that are actually not possible to reach from the nearest city by bicycle, but I've never seen them.

People are free to use cars, but I'm bugged by excuses that say they are the ONLY way to do it when there are often many alternatives. I guess they kind of know that and are feeling guilty and thus want to pretend they wouldn't drive but for externalities.

Roody

It's similar here in parts of the Midwest. We have a county park only about six miles that has several miles of single track along a river. It wouldn't be great mountain biking to folks from the western states, but it's still a lot of fun.

I often rode out there with my son and a friend. We rode our mountain bikes across town and on the country roads to get there and would ride the trails for a couple hours. Sometimes we'd rent a canoe and paddle on the river too. Our tradition was to stop at a pancake restaurant on our ride home.

In the winter I used to get on the river ice and ride all the way out to that same park. That was always a great adventure! My son would occasionally go with me, but our friend would most often decline.

I suppose this sounds pretty lame to someone who prefers to get in a big truck and go with 300 horsepower. That probably is better than using human power and maybe getting a little sweaty if it's a nice hot summer day. But we sure had fun--we even preferred paying for pancakes instead of gas!

I hope others will share similar experiences. I like reading about the carfree fun that people have on bikes. I also glad that noobs like the OP have a chance to learn more about becoming less reliant on their cars and trucks.

cooker

There's nothing hidden about it. Why would it surprise or even offend you to discover that in a forum which includes the phrase "car free" in its actual title, some people (certainly not everybody) are anti-car? As for agendas, it sounds like your agenda is to come here and argue about those people's politics rather than discuss car free living. Certainly that was the point of this thread - to start a political argument. Whenever people complain that LCF is too political it's usually after they themselves have been arguing politics rather than discussing LCF.

badger1

Hmmmm. You might (or not, or perhaps not care!) be surprised to know that in an odd way I completely agree with you, cooker. This sub-forum should be about living car-free or car-light.

I follow this forum with interest, to pick up ideas and read about others' experiences living car-free or car-light. I live the latter. That is why I tend to get a little annoyed with, and engage in some at times irascible comment to or about, a certain very small number of posters on here who appear utterly unable to separate their political and/or religious convictions from specific/pragmatic concerns. Occasionally? Fine, but as I see it this forum has recently come to be largely dominated by enormous essays that bear only tangentially, if at all, on actually living car-free or car-light. I think that's unfortunate. That stuff, and those debates, to my mind belong in P & R.

That said, I see this thread as the flip-side of that and it seems to me a pointless troll in the context of this forum. Nevertheless, and for the record: when I resumed cycling in 2002, and made it an integral part of my life for health reasons, for modest environmental reasons (yes, I'm a closet but active environmentalist/conservationist), and primarily for the sheer bloody joy I find in it, I made a resolution: I would never, ever put my bike in my car and 'drive to ride'. I've always felt -- perhaps irrationally -- that there was a minor but significant personal contradiction involved in doing that.

I've stuck to that resolution.

tandempower

You should have titled this thread, "combining hate for the Amish with hate for Buddhist Monks" or whatever it was you were alluding to in an earlier post regarding "peach colored robes."

Using the term, "global warming alarmist," represents an "ideologically motivated hidden agenda." Even if you don't believe in global warming, there is the problem of sprawl and deforestation. Even without the greenhouse effect, deserts get extremely hot during the day and extremely cold at night. Do you really want to make every area inhabited by humans into a desert?

In Europe there are trains with cars devoted to carrying your bike with you. In North America, public transit that allows you to carry your bike is more limited. Does this create a disincentive to LCF? Yes. Does everyone allow this disincentive to discourage them from LCF? No.

What do you want? Validation for people who don't LCF? Is that what people come to an LCF forum for? I thought it was to troll and argue against the premises for believing LCF is good for the planet, economy, people's health, etc.

When I used to cross the Atlantic, people would ridicule you for burning fuel to fly across the Atlantic in the first place. Back in those days, anti-Globalization was a code word for anti-Americanism, but that's probably all changed now.

You're assuming a lot here. For one, some people's LCF interests are part and parcel of their religious and political convictions. If someone posted a thread about cutting down all the trees and forests on Earth to build dense, LCF-friendly cities, I would not be for that and I would see it as being given a no-win ultimatum.

As for specific/pragmatic concerns, sometimes you choose a specific-pragmatic approach, but that doesn't mean you have to stop noting the moral failure in doing so. I appreciate developments in self-driving cars, ride-sharing, public transit, etc. even though I ultimately think they are a distraction from the more important ideal of shifting as much transportation to biking as possible in order to maximize reforestation. Yes, it's pragmatic to support transit and evolution of the auto industry because most areas aren't yet suitable for maximum biking, but I wouldn't want to give the impression that I think an area is ideal when most everyone is still motor-dependent because distances between many destinations are too far and/or unpleasant to bike.

That's because people argue against simple statements made in passing in a post, and by doing so start a discussion that blows up because they can't accept the reasoning behind the passing statement.

Well-put: "drive-to-ride." There's something disheartening about having to tote a bike on a vehicle to have a bike ride. On the other hand, though, how I wish there were more long-distance bus routes with bike racks so I could tote my bike to other areas and then explore them by bike.

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by tandempower

... Well-put:"drive-to-ride." There's something disheartening about having to tote a bike on a vehicle to have a bike ride. On the other hand, though, how I wish there were more long-distance bus routes with bike racks so I could tote my bike to other areas and then explore them by bike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim fromBoston

My personal situation is that I have so little time to cycle as much as I want to, that it's not worth the time to drive somewhere, unless a special event. Fortunately cycling in Metro Boston itself always beckons with good routes in every direction. I mostly do my miles by extending my commute.

I like to cite my cycling experiences in Boston, not to brag, but to illustrate the possibilities. The Subway and Commuter Rail here allow fully-assembled bikes in their cars with certain reasonable restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…On a happier note, the Transportation Authority (MBTA) allows bikes on subways and commuter trains with certain restrictions and that's a nice way to get out of town without city riding. MBTA > Riding the T > Bikes on the T...

See also this post about local bikepaths / MUPS in the City of Boston proper, and nearby…

Of particular personal benefit, my home is about one mile from the nearest subway stop that allows bikes, and about two miles from my Commuter Rail Station, My workplace is about 500 yrds from the Commuter Rail Station at that end of the trip (of a minimum of 14 miles).

Finally, please excuse this initially unintended, shameless self-promotion, but BTW, FYA:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

I’ve been beating around the bush this summer, but now it’s time to propose [A proposed Fifty-Plus Annual Ride in Boston, Sept, 18, 2016 (don’t have to be 50+)].

As on previous Annual Fifty-Plus Rides, it’s a chance to meet and socialize with other subscribers in the context of an organized ride. This Hub on Wheels has been held for several years now, with mileages suitable for all riders, up to about 40 miles, and is an excellent tour of this beautiful and interesting city…

From previous Rides:

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss kenton

... Our trip to Boston was more fun than I could have ever anticipated. I would highly recommend a visit to Boston to anyone.What a beautiful city… We were able to see some really interesting things in Boston, and Boston has a great deal to offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by irwin7638

…I loved Bahstahn a bunch, one cannot really call it a college town, it is the college town and consequently has become very bike friendly. I was really impressed with the bike infrastructure developed in the town and the overall safety of the city…I found the place really affordable and easy to visit….

badger1

@tandempower,

We are never going to agree on the first-order intellectual concepts that lead each of us to think about, and see the world, the way we do. So I propose a truce: I will not comment again, directly or obliquely, on your more general statements. In turn, I would ask that you not comment on anything I write in here save as to specifics.

So, for example, when you write "There's something disheartening about having to tote a bike on a vehicle to have a bike ride. On the other hand, though, how I wish there were more long-distance bus routes with bike racks so I could tote my bike to other areas and then explore them by bike" I can respond constructively because this is a specific point bearing directly on living car-free or car-light and the role that cycling can play in that.

I agree, and as it happens I can let you know that in my city we are fortunate to have such bus routes, and buses with racks, that allow one to get out of the urban mess and into the countryside without either cycling or driving. There could certainly be more such buses, and longer routes, but at least we've made a start. By the way, those routes include ones that provide access to the two main mtb areas in my immediate region. I don't make much use of this facility simply because I prefer to ride my way out and because I am still able physically to do so, but it is a facility that is quite heavily used.

I-Like-To-Bike

I bought one of the best bikes I ever had from from people who wore orange colored robes; a thrift shop run by Hare Krishna types who had donated their "worldly possessions." In 1972 I bought 1969 Raleigh Sprite, which was identical to the Raleigh Sports 3 speed, except that it was equipped with the S5 5 speed IGH. $40 for a great bike in perfect like new condition.

tandempower

Think about what you're saying. What if abolitionists in the 19th century had agreed to disagree with confederates who wanted them to acknowledge the difference in worldview that prompted some people to view slavery as a problem and others to view it as unproblematic? We would have ended up with separate regions of slavery and non-slavery because people "agreed to disagree."

What I will do is agree to maintain a respectful tone as long as you do the same. We may not be able to 'agree to disagree,' but at least we can agree to disagree respectfully.

Nice to know you haven't squared off against me as a whole, like some people in this forum.

Jim from Boston

My post about Boston, of similar nature to yours, appeared just a few minutes earlier. Where are you, (?) Toronto, if you don't mind me asking.

Also FYA, see my edit that I wrote just a couple minutes after your post appeared.