Does the last vestige of C&V prejudice lay with the steel rim?
10-22-14, 09:07 PM
#1
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Does the last vestige of C&V prejudice lay with the steel rim?
Of all things classic and vintage what can you not tolerate?
10-22-14, 09:14 PM
#2
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I think prejudice is the wrong word since it implies a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
In the case of steel rims, I think most cyclists who have ridden bikes with steel rims will tell you (based on actual experience) that they're heavy, rim brakes don't work well in wet weather, and they rust.
IOW, objectively they suck.
In the case of steel rims, I think most cyclists who have ridden bikes with steel rims will tell you (based on actual experience) that they're heavy, rim brakes don't work well in wet weather, and they rust.
IOW, objectively they suck.
10-22-14, 09:14 PM
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I figure they were obsolete as early as ~1928, so I have no love for them. They suck even with the best brake pads you can get.
I've never serviced the BB on my old 3-speed because of the cottered cranks -- did people really drive out the cotter pins and reinstall them every year to maintain their bottom brackets?
I've never serviced the BB on my old 3-speed because of the cottered cranks -- did people really drive out the cotter pins and reinstall them every year to maintain their bottom brackets?
10-22-14, 09:35 PM
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I find carbide lamps to be vastly inferior to more modern lighting systems. And nay, I will not use them, sir!
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
10-22-14, 09:50 PM
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I've got bikes with 27" steel rims that look and work great with the right brake pads, which are old OEM ones.
It rains very little here, but I have experienced the dramatic wet-braking power loss, which is scary!
Sometimes it's hard to find steel rims with smooth, even brake tracks on both rims, and I don't much like the ones with embossed brake tracks.
Araya and Ukai made 27" steel rims that seemed the best to me.
Cotter cranks are good and easy to service if one has a cotter press and uses the original, hardened cotters. Installed cotters must be fitted tight, with alternating nut torqueing and light hammer taps until the nut resists further tightening.
In the C&V world, I have almost no tolerance for older chains or for non-clipless pedals.
Older chains are noisy, shift poorly and even worse with sparse lubrication.
Vintage road pedals work poorly with any kind of shoe that fits my feet, and vintage shoes usually fall apart.
It rains very little here, but I have experienced the dramatic wet-braking power loss, which is scary!
Sometimes it's hard to find steel rims with smooth, even brake tracks on both rims, and I don't much like the ones with embossed brake tracks.
Araya and Ukai made 27" steel rims that seemed the best to me.
Cotter cranks are good and easy to service if one has a cotter press and uses the original, hardened cotters. Installed cotters must be fitted tight, with alternating nut torqueing and light hammer taps until the nut resists further tightening.
In the C&V world, I have almost no tolerance for older chains or for non-clipless pedals.
Older chains are noisy, shift poorly and even worse with sparse lubrication.
Vintage road pedals work poorly with any kind of shoe that fits my feet, and vintage shoes usually fall apart.
10-22-14, 09:54 PM
#6
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It's all good - next question....
10-22-14, 09:55 PM
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Yes!
10-22-14, 09:55 PM
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My truest hatred is for toe clips and crappy tires.
Scooper covered all of the bases. Why would I want to use a rim that doesn't stop in the rain, offers inferior braking and is heavier to boot? They also invariably come on bikes I have no interest in.
Scooper covered all of the bases. Why would I want to use a rim that doesn't stop in the rain, offers inferior braking and is heavier to boot? They also invariably come on bikes I have no interest in.
10-22-14, 09:59 PM
#9
Still learning
Certain electro forged frames made in Chicago that were sold as "racing" bikes. More like boat anchors!
10-22-14, 10:35 PM
#10
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Certain electro forged frames made in Chicago that were sold as "racing" bikes.
I've been riding mine about 100 miles per week. I select the Varsity often even though I have several bikes to choose from. To be fair, I did replace the steel rims and Huret rear derailleur with aluminum and Suntour.
Last edited by turky lurkey; 10-22-14 at 10:39 PM.
10-22-14, 10:48 PM
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10-22-14, 11:30 PM
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One could almost build a complete bike with all the parts mentioned so far. Where is this leading?
10-23-14, 12:36 AM
#14
Senior Member
I think prejudice is the wrong word since it implies a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
In the case of steel rims, I think most cyclists who have ridden bikes with steel rims will tell you (based on actual experience) that they're heavy, rim brakes don't work well in wet weather, and they rust.
IOW, objectively they suck.
In the case of steel rims, I think most cyclists who have ridden bikes with steel rims will tell you (based on actual experience) that they're heavy, rim brakes don't work well in wet weather, and they rust.
IOW, objectively they suck.
and I use the Fibrax Raincheater brake blocks, with the leather strip produced for steel rims.
Still not as good as modern brakes, but I readily accept the performance difference and adjust my riding accordingly.
10-23-14, 03:29 AM
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Yup.
OP nailed it and Scooper's reply (that it isn't prejudice at all) proves the point. But you're comparing cheap bike boom crap to much finer gear, aren't you?
Most steel rims (just like most steel cranks) seen today were made after improvements in materials and design had rendered them obsolete. Most steel rims were made of cheap steel, poorly chromed, and fitted crummy tires; and they went into bikes that fit the same description.
High quality lightweight steel rims (such as Dunlop Special Lightweight) are really very nice. they are no heavier than aluminum and have a much more attractive finish. If someone made double walled 700c hooked bead rims from 531 steel, we could make a fair comparison.
OP nailed it and Scooper's reply (that it isn't prejudice at all) proves the point. But you're comparing cheap bike boom crap to much finer gear, aren't you?
Most steel rims (just like most steel cranks) seen today were made after improvements in materials and design had rendered them obsolete. Most steel rims were made of cheap steel, poorly chromed, and fitted crummy tires; and they went into bikes that fit the same description.
High quality lightweight steel rims (such as Dunlop Special Lightweight) are really very nice. they are no heavier than aluminum and have a much more attractive finish. If someone made double walled 700c hooked bead rims from 531 steel, we could make a fair comparison.
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10-23-14, 03:39 AM
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Those fixies with the BIG wheel.
Steel rims? You mean Schwinn Varsity and those Sears bikes.
I throw in my "dont even bother" list to include my unholy trinity of stem shifters, turkey levers and chrome dork disk.
Steel rims? You mean Schwinn Varsity and those Sears bikes.
I throw in my "dont even bother" list to include my unholy trinity of stem shifters, turkey levers and chrome dork disk.
10-23-14, 04:21 AM
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Yup.
OP nailed it and Scooper's reply (that it isn't prejudice at all) proves the point. But you're comparing cheap bike boom crap to much finer gear, aren't you?
Most steel rims (just like most steel cranks) seen today were made after improvements in materials and design had rendered them obsolete. Most steel rims were made of cheap steel, poorly chromed, and fitted crummy tires; and they went into bikes that fit the same description.
High quality lightweight steel rims (such as Dunlop Special Lightweight) are really very nice. they are no heavier than aluminum and have a much more attractive finish. If someone made double walled 700c hooked bead rims from 531 steel, we could make a fair comparison.
OP nailed it and Scooper's reply (that it isn't prejudice at all) proves the point. But you're comparing cheap bike boom crap to much finer gear, aren't you?
Most steel rims (just like most steel cranks) seen today were made after improvements in materials and design had rendered them obsolete. Most steel rims were made of cheap steel, poorly chromed, and fitted crummy tires; and they went into bikes that fit the same description.
High quality lightweight steel rims (such as Dunlop Special Lightweight) are really very nice. they are no heavier than aluminum and have a much more attractive finish. If someone made double walled 700c hooked bead rims from 531 steel, we could make a fair comparison.
My limited understanding (very, very limited) about those Dunlop rims you've referenced is that they're easily taco'd. Perhaps the aluminum rims at that time were too, but I wouldn't want one of those either.
So - we have hypothetical steel rims that would cost more to make and steel rims that may have been comparable to aluminum 70 years ago. You'll have to forgive me, but I still don't want them. Steel Dunlop specials were actually the main reason I moved that clubman on to photogravity.
10-23-14, 05:09 AM
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Steel rims will never be the last against-it as long as gas pipe is still available.
But we all have our own against-it's, don't we?
But we all have our own against-it's, don't we?
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
10-23-14, 05:48 AM
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My limited understanding (very, very limited) about those Dunlop rims you've referenced is that they're easily taco'd. Perhaps the aluminum rims at that time were too, but I wouldn't want one of those either. ... Steel Dunlop specials were actually the main reason I moved that clubman on to photogravity.
. Old aluminum rims were easily taco'd, and indeed you wouldn't want them; that was what was on your Clubman. I don't know how tough the steel ones are; all the ones I've ever seen were in excellent condition. That includes the 27" pair on the Norman Rapide now in Photogravity's hands; the 27" pair on the Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix now in RobE30's hands; and three 26" ones that are in my own hands but I'm not currently using.
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10-23-14, 06:08 AM
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Frame/fork - "electro forged boat anchors" from Chicago
Wheels - steel rims (probably along with the "electro forged boat anchors"), just include the hubs that come with those steel rims
Tires - "crappy" ones
Crankset - cottered crank set, preferably of French origin...with non hardened cotters
Pedals - non-clipless...no brand/origin preferred
Shoes - old, non-clipless versions
Lights - carbide lamps
Seat post clamp - per earlier picture (I do not even know what to call that one!)...but...may as well add in the steel seat post that comes with that type of clamp
Brake Levers - any with turkey levers
Rear cluster - add the dork disk!
Shifters - stem shifters
Couple of additions...
Rear Derailleur - plastic Simplex model
Front Derailleur - any Simplex that I have come across
Anyone want to add to this? Seems like a fun build! Maybe we should all pool our resources here, one of us volunteer to actually do the build...and build this scary, disliked Frankenbike! Of course, at the rate this is going, we could just as easily say...buy a Schwinn Varsity...it seems to fit almost all of the criteria!
Last edited by daf1009; 10-23-14 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Updating
10-23-14, 06:35 AM
#24
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In addition to crank_addicts seat post clamp, I'm going with toe clips and straps.
At least for anyone with a large wide foot.
Single pivot long reach side pull brakes. They don't stop.
At least for anyone with a large wide foot.
Single pivot long reach side pull brakes. They don't stop.
10-23-14, 06:58 AM
#25
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"Schwinn Approved" decals on other manufacturers components.
Campagnolo NR seatposts.
Campagnolo seatpost binder bolts.
Campagnolo NR seatposts.
Campagnolo seatpost binder bolts.