shutuppostman

Sorry if this has been discussed before but anything VaLite is difficult to find on here. That said, I know Hi Ten is bottom of the barrel, but Ive also heard pretty damning things about Valite so to be direct:
1) hi ten vs VaLite weight?
2) hi ten vs VaLite strength?
3) VaLite vs reynolds 531/anything chromoly??

The last question i ask because Ive heard some compare VaLite to 531 but Id like some verification/clarity on that claim. Thanks in advance!

bargainguy

I think there's more variety in hi-ten tubing than in Valite. So:

Valite is chromium-vanadium tubing. Hi-ten came in different flavors such as 1020 and 2040, as well as butted hi-ten and very occasionally double-butted hi-ten. If memory serves, Valite was made by Ishiwata for Fuji. Seamed tubing that could easily be butted in different sections, so in some respects, easier to manufacture in butted form than butted seamless tubing.

Curious to know why you're interested in the strength of hi-ten vs Valite. Generally not an issue that comes up in everyday tubing discussions. More folks are interested in ride quality and weight as opposed to strength.

I had a Sekai Competition with double-butted hi-ten (!), which I imagine was somewhere between butted hi-ten and straight-gauge 4130 chromoly. Would it be better than Valite? Who knows, but that Sekai was a pretty smooth ride.

shutuppostman

Oh I'm for sure interested in ride quality and weight more than anything, but I'm a bike messenger in NYC where potholes and minor to severe falls are part of the job so strength is also a concern of mine. That said, I understand VaLite isnt as strong as chromoly which is why I was using hi ten for comparison. My last bike was a fuji sports 10 Hi Ten frame and it did fine out here meeting that criterion and Hi Ten is apparently not that strong so clearly the bar isnt too high. So as long as its as strong (if not stronger, preferably) as Hi Ten, it should be fine but yeah, as of right now I cant say that definitively, hence the strength question.

Though, again, more than anything Im concerned with weight/ridability so any knowledge on those things? This fuji sagres frame Im looking at is tripple butted so it should be light and comfy like any fuji is but still, any and all input with regards to weight, ridability and strength is what Im after as Im otherwise kind of clueless haha

Kilroy1988 

This I can respond to. I've put quite a few miles on a 1986 Club Fuji built with VaLite, and also used to ride a butted 531 Raleigh Super Course on a regular basis. The VaLite really is rather stiff, and does not "feel" like much compared to 531. However, it can get up and go in a sprint like I could never get that Super Course to, and is also not too fatiguing on long rides. Though, I know I would prefer the 531 for 50+ mile rides, just because it is not so rigid.

Cheers!

-Gregory

shutuppostman

Can you comment on the weight comparison? I know this is mostly a thing of components of course, but anecdotally and generally speaking?

Kilroy1988 

I really could not tell you. The frames are similar size but I've never torn the Club Fuji down, while the Raleigh is currently disassembled as a frame set. My unedumacated guess is that with two frames of the same size, one probably won't find much more than 200-300 grams difference.

shutuppostman

Edit: user bargainguy was the commenter. New to this forum so if anyone knows to tag bargainguy thatd be awesome!

I dont know how I did it but I believe I just deleted someones comment. The ending was in regards to my situation being "tricky" in such a way that maybe I should go for something "bomb proof" and take the weight thats associated with it.

If youre reading this, 1) sorry for accidentally deleting your comment and 2) are you suggesting I go with Hi Ten if not Chromoly over VaLite?

Kilroy1988 

Anyone can delete their own post until a new post followed. Apparently he did not care to have his post read after all.

FBinNY 

IME - you can delete your own post even after others follow. However, if anyone quoted you, the quote box will be unchanged.

Kilroy1988 

I'll be, you're right. I've been on a few forums where that was not the case, and I had never noticed it was different here. Cheers!

FBinNY 

Yep, I deleted my prior post successfully.

So here it is back again fresh.
----------------

The variation in mechanical properties, most specifically the flex modulus of various steels in confined to a narrow band. Higher alloys are stronger, but all alloys flex similarly.

So the best predictor of ride properties is the OD and wall thickness. Now here's where it gets interesting. Stronger alloys allow for thinner walls at the same strength, but those thinner walls make the tubes more flexible and this flex is what gives good bikes the superior ride characteristics.

However, it's possible to get too thin and too flexy, especially for heavier riders, but this again isn't related to strength, just wall thickness.

Vintage Raleigh

With potholes your rims will give quite possibly before your frame.

old's'cool

From an impact and damage tolerance perspective, a well made frame of thicker tubing, of any decent "hi-ten" grade or better, will perform better than one equally well made, of thinner tubing.
I would say Valite and butted/double butted Valite are good candidates for a rugged messenger bike frame material.
Lightness and liveliness can be exchanged for toughness; you can't have everything (unless you up the price ante in a big way).
If you really want to find the ultimate in a high performing frame for messenger service, look at cyclo cross bikes.

uncle uncle

Yeah, what Geoff said. Basically, a bike frame sees compression loading... from you sitting on it and constantly applying a downward force, which is reacted by the ground not compressing (well, not too much). Yes, your spinny little legs (along with your centrifugal forces generated when turning) impart some sideways or bending loading, and yes, some frames are "stiffer" to handle such things better than others, but mostly, a bike frame is sized for it's compression loading analysis. And the tubes that make up the frame are great in compression loading, and pretty good at the bending loading too. More robust (i.e. think expensive) tubing material can be drawn thinner and still provide as adequate (or better) compression load handling capability, but the thinner walls also make them more prone to accidental denting than thicker hi-ten type tubing. It's just hard to predict the expected abuse loads. Design is always a choice of compromises.

bargainguy

Ha! Eagle eyed OP reading yesterday's post just as I deleted it. Something along the lines of:

Your situation is somewhat unique. You depend on your bike for income, so protection from significant frame damage if your bike sustains trauma is more important than ride quality and weight, all else being equal. You can ride around all day on a hi-ten bike and probably still make your deliveries if it gets hurt, but riding a butted frame with a broken or dented tube could really put you in a bad place and at risk of significant injury.

Yes, I did recommend hi-ten, or for better ride quality with only slightly increased risk, straight gauge tubing in better grades, say a classic frame with straight gauge 531. Butted tubing increases the risk that if the bike takes a spill onto the middle of a tube, it might be damaged beyond repair. The more sections are butted - double, triple and even quad - the thinner those middle sections are, and the higher risk of damage.