Tony N.

I see a number of suggestions here on BF to offer to lead a group ride that meets your riding style. While I agree that sounds like an excellant idea to meet your/my needs, I just read an article about the legal ramifications of how you present the info. to potential riders in the event of an accident. I don't have the mag article but think it was in the latest Bicycle Times. As I remember it, if you offer to lead a (pick a night) ride then you are incurring some liability as this would be an "organized ride". But to say I will be riding (pick a night) ride and you are welcome to join does not infer an organized ride.
Any thoughts?

youcoming

I say if you swing your leg over a bike you must be willing to take a risk. If you go down in a group than so be it but there will always be some snivelling snot out there who will have to lay blame so they can be compensated! Cycling is not a sport for the risk adverse. Saying all that I am an executive on our club and we all have to sing a waiver and we have club insurance and are an incorporated club which in Canada covers those who are on the executive.

Pamestique 

Sometimes we make too much of something... you are right however... its best to say I am doing this ride at this pace and newbies or other fellow riders are welcome to join. There is no risk of liability if people just decide to ride together. Also I believe in most states there also is no risk if its a club ride (people show up to ride together at their own risk) etc. Sponsored (event) rides were a fee is paid and there is an expectation of safety is another matter however...

rdtompki

Or find a club that provides for impromptu rides which might require a day or two's notice. This would give you coverage under the club's policy.

Nightshade

Since this it a legal question it would best be answered by a lawyer in the state where the ride take place.

Any legal opinions offered here would be dangerous to follow.

indyfabz

I can see one possibly getting sued in the event of an injury occurring on a ride one has orgaized and offered to lead. Whether it would result in a finding of liability is not the sole issue. The pain and expense of defending such a suit has to be considered.

I lead rides through a club which I am a member of. The club has insurance which indemnifies and defends (important to have both, as without the latter you may have to defend yourself) club members who list and lead rides through the club.

Outside of "official" rides, I don't worry about saying to a few friends "Hey. The GF and I are going to do Alphabit Soup on Saturday. Want to join us?"

Seattle Forrest

If it worries you, talk to a lawyer.

I've been doing a small, informal group ride for a while. There isn't really a leader, and it's a handful of people who already know each other at least somewhat, from having worked together, dated somebody's roommate, or whatever. People are friends or at least acquaintances, and don't really want to sue each other, plus we know that nobody is a complete idiot. So this has never crossed my mind, and that probably goes for everyone else, too.

Realistically, riding a bike is pretty safe.

johnny99

Some kind of vague information from Bicycling Magazine: https://bicycling.com/blogs/roadright...arless-leader/

Shellyrides

Thank you for posting that! It is vague but gives me idea what is needed..(now to find out if a lawyer will do a write up of release for me)

Keith99

Probably. But I'll offer something anyway.

If you accept money you likely also accept increased liability. Also if you make promises, especially re safety then you open the door to liability.

eja_ bottecchia

You are Canadian and therefore don't understand the litigation-happy climate in the USA. Here people don't need much of an excuse to file a lawsuit.

Consider yourself lucky my friend.

To the OP, you are right about potential legal liability.

Esteban58

Most (all?) of the organized rides in my area require you to sign some sort of waver.
I'm sure that's intended to address this.

Sadly, in the US, you really do need to worry about this.

Tony N.

Thanks for the link. That is the one I read. I mentioned it to bring up this discussion and give our volunteers something to think about but certainly not to discourage ride leader volunteering.

nerys

sadly in the US a waiver is worth less than the paper its printed on legally unless the jurisdiction your in has a specific provision enforcing such waivers.

sad state of affairs for sure. we are a very litigious society but we "bred" that litigious nature intentionally we get what we deserve (as a nation)

Tony N.

Thanks for all replies. Just wanted to let my BF friends to know this is something to think about. I guess that you should be sure to define your role as a co-participant but if you offer advice or pick the route, you may be considered a road captain or coach and should be insured against liability. Wonder if a or homeowners policy would cover us? But some may not own a home or car. Most running and biking clubs I've belonged to in the past have insurance so if the ride is affiliated with the name of the club, the leaders would be covered. Sad to bring this up but in the US ignorance of the law does not limit liability. We need to be in the know and I knew BF peeps are knowledgeable and love to share.

Mr. Beanz

I used to organize rides with forum members, some were large 30 rider groups. I read some stuff on rides that others had organized and figured I didn't want to be too repsonsible. If you notice, I don't organize rides that we go on anymore, I leave it to somebody else. I pretty much just say I will be there.

goldfinch

Most but not all states likely will enforce a waiver if it is clear and unambiguous, if the risks to be waived are disclosed, if claims based on negligence are specifically waived, and if the waiver isn't against some kind of public policy or there isn't some specific law that deals with the issue. Sometimes waivers should be set aside. After all, a waiver is saying to a person that you do not have the duties that the law would otherwise say you have. The general rule of law is that people have a duty to exercise reasonable care. A waiver sets aside that duty. This is can be pretty harsh. So, a waiver likely will be construed narrowly. If you behave outrageously (you are grossly negligent, reckless, or engage in willful or wanton misconduct) a waiver likely will not protect you. Which I don't think is a bad thing.

So much for the general proposition. More specifically:

States where recreational waivers will not be enforced by the courts: Louisiana, Montana, and Virginia.

States with strict interpretations of contract language (they will be examined carefully and are circumstances where they won't be upheld): Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Utah, Vermont, and Wisconsin.

States with more moderate interpretations of contract language (the decisions have been generally less strident than the strict interpretations in other states): Colorado, D.C., Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

States with fairly lenient interpretations (the decisions show good acceptance of waiver/releases and apply fewer standards to the language used): Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, and Tennessee. States where the outcome is not predictable because no case law or statutory authority: Puerto Rico and Rhode Island.



https://www.sadlersports.com/riskmana...errelease.html
https://www.recmanagement.com/feature...fid=200611gc03

Parental waivers for their kids are a whole other ballgame.

Rowan

It is one of the reasons why I suggested you do up a proposal for a ride and present to the club where you are disenchanted.

The waiver means nothing if you are negligent and even just responding to a claim against you will cost you, let's pick a figure, around $20,000 let alone the anguish and uncertainty.

goldfinch

Not quite. As I stated above in much more detail, in most states you can in fact get a waiver to protect you from simple negligence on your part. However, I do agree that this doesn't mean someone wouldn't make a claim. Defending that claim, even to get it dismissed on a motion, costs money. That is why insurance is important. I would check with your insurance agent to see if you are covered.

Rowan

It's a matter of interpretation as to how gross the negligence might be. And a good lawyer could argue that a act of simple negligence could be gross if it led to death or total and permanent disability. It's a matter of where the boundary between simple and gross lies, and how good is the legal representations for the ride organiser.

But it's semantics, really, and overall we're on the same page, even though we might be in different countries.

Shops that organise rides generally believe their insurance will cover eventualities, but anyone associated with a shop ride (and who signs waivers with the shop rides they participate in?) should check the owner has you covered.

SeanBlader

You'll be hearing from my attorney in regards to this blatent obstruction of my business process and revenue stream. This is how businesses shut down, with several employees that are going to be out of work because you put this information out there! I can't believe you would be so callous and heartless.

SeanBlader

Okay no... Kidding there! Definitely thanks for the heads up Tony, we are far to quick to sue in this country and there are way too many people who are unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions and stupidity, and this is why we can't have nice things.

digibud

If you consult a lawyer you may well find him/her advising you to NOT have a waiver signed. NO waiver prevents a person from suing. The more you act like a leader the more liability you incur. I am NOT a lawyer so this is just my understanding. If you organize a ride, make rules for a ride and pick when, where, etc then you set up expectations among the riders. If you invite people to go for a ride and jointly choose where, how, the rules of the road/group etc etc then you diminish your leadership role and there is little or no liability on your part. You still can't stop somebody from suing but you can certainly lower the chances they will win. Act like a leader and you have responsibilities. Act like one of the group and you are one of the group. That's my perspective.

Rowan

Read the other posts in the thread. What you say about having no waiver will not prevent a person from suing. And if someone in a group is not a designated leader, then the likely outcome is that everyone in the group might be targeted in the lawsuit.

You think you might be able to hide behind numbers on this, but you can't. Why do you think there are usually multiple respondents in lawsuits seeking damages for accidents?

Having a waiver may mitigate the responsibility of the organiser by setting out clearly that the participant was aware that risk existed in the ride. The question in an accident situation arises at to whether the risk that caused the accident was foreseeable by the organisers and adequate steps were taken to avoid that risk.

SeanBlader

Every time I read this thread it upsets me that people can't take responsibility for themselves. I could see if someone on the ride deliberately ran you into a parked car, or off the edge of a cliff or something like that, but if it wasn't deliberate, you shouldn't have a case, in fact the judge should award the defendant a monetary sum for his time and trouble to be paid by the plaintiff. The whole idea of having to take time off work, that I enjoy and that finds me valuable is, so I can participate in this kind of charade is offensive.