FordTrax

I am working on my Mr. Pink. I was going to put wing shifters on the handlebars but they just don't seem appropriate for this bike. I really seems that downtube shifters are appropriate. While I have experience with friction shifting I don't know a lot about downtube shifters. I will be running 10 speed shimano road.

I don't know that I want indexed but I am not ruling it out.

Tomorrow, I will be at a community bike operation. In the past they have a bunch of older frames that they strip down and recycle; some with DT shifters - but generally they don't re-use the DT Shifters due to the lack of popularity. They just get thrown in a box. So I thought I may look to see if I can find a nice pair of DT shifters that they will not be using. Making a donation in turn.

The Mr. Pink has the DT bosses with the small square on the frame. So I believe I am good to go with DTs. Just need ones that will work with 10speed road.

Any suggestions on what make/model of DTs shifters I should keep my eye open for tomorrow? I would love to find a pair of black colored ones but I don't expect that will happen. But you never know what they are going to have there on a given day. So some suggestions on good quality reliable shifters would be helpful.

veganbikes

I mean you want to find 10 speed road compatible ones which will likely be Dura-Ace or Microshift as I think by 10 speed there was very little want or need for downtube shifters so it just hit one component level for everything. I doubt you will find much because it was not something that really came spec'd on many of any bikes it was something someone would do after market like say a Lance Armstrong who was doing it to save weight by eliminating the front STI lever and using a downtube shifter. You may get lucky but more than likely you will be running into mostly friction stuff and maybe some 6-8 speed stuff.

RH Clark

Thy simplest solution is friction. I believe Rivendell has friction. I have a bike with Dura-Ace indexed 10 speed but you will likely have to find them on Ebay.

_ForceD_

Of course if you want the indexing, you’ll have to match a derailleur that is compatible with the shifter’s indexing. Also wondering about the frame accommodating a 10-speed cassette. I may be wrong, but it seems that when down tube shifting was still popular that 10-speed (rear dropout width) hadn’t been introduced yet. — Dan

smd4

Dura Ace SL-7800 downtube shifters are only a couple hundred bucks on eBay. I believe they can also be switched to friction.

ljsense

Shimano made 10-speed downtube shift levers in two generations of components -- the 7800 stuff, as well as the 7900 group. I had a few pairs of these over the years and sort of wished I'd held on to at least one set of them.

I sold them when I noticed what smd4 pointed out above -- they get crazy money on eBay. I am pretty sure I bought mine new for around $90 and sold them for over $200. Search for SL-7800 and SL-7900 and see what's out there.

If you happen to find any of them in your community bike co-ops bin, you struck gold.

grumpus

Suntour Power ratchet shifters - I just fitted some, they're good, usually a few cheap on eBay, or you might consider their bar-end levers. Simplex/Mavic/Spidel retro-friction was an even slicker, non-ratcheting one-way shifter - the Mavic version was available with a dark grey anodised finish IIRC, but prices for these approach or exceed those of the new Dia-Compe or Rivendell offerings.

70sSanO

Index depends on your rear derailleur. If you plan on running a new 10/11 speed 1.4 actuation ratio, 7800/7900 won’t work.

If you are running older 1.7 actuation ratio, then they should work.

I believe you can run 9 of 10 with a 1.4 RD and 8 speed DT shifter with the last cog using the low limit stop. That may or may not be a solution depending on how much you need an 11t if you block it out.

3.95/1.4=2.82mm cable pull
4.80/1.7=2.82mm cable pull

John

Edit added: You can get 10 speed bar end/TT shifters and “probably” mount them on the downtube bosses.

Iride01 

Why don't you think STI's will look good on a old bike? Sure if you are wanting a retro or vintage look that isn't it. But the convenience of being able to shift at times you might want to keep both hands on the handlebar just is too overwhelming for me.

Those bosses for the downtube shift levers can easily be replaced with adjustable cable stops or just fixed cable stops. It is also a cleaner look if you get the newer STI's or equivalents that route both brake and shift cable under the bar tape. I never cared for the cluttered look of cables springing out of the top of brake levers and much less for shift cable coming out of the sides of the early STI's.

Steel Charlie

Dura Ace 10 spd barcons work on downtube bosses.

Kontact 

You can use 10 speed Dura Ace, 10 speed Shimano barends mounted directly to the down tube bosses or the Microshift version of the same.

Otherwise, shifting 10 gears on friction can be challenging due to the small angle the shifter moves per gear. Ratchets like the Suntour or DiaCompe have some backlash that makes it harder to place the derailleur accurately. The Simplex retrofiction levers are ideal because they have a very small diameter, meaning more degrees per shift, but no backlash.

Otherwise, basic friction or Shimano 7 speed era might be the easiest to deal with for the price.

FordTrax

Well, after reading these posts, especially this "Index depends on your rear derailleur. If you plan on running a new 10/11 speed 1.4 actuation ratio,..." I remembered that I threw a new Tiagra 4700 derailleur on since it was hanging around on my bike table. I had planned to use it for a bike that I ended up selling. Anyway, the 1.4 actuation ratio post made me remember something tucked in the very back of my mind about Tiagra being more like 11 speed in pull. I did some research on stack exchange I found this:

• Tiagra 4700 rear derailleurs have an actuation ratio of 1.4 This dovetails with
  Code:

  70sSanO's 1.4 comment above.

I know there are tricks to make a shifter pull a bit more cable - tube around the cable at the shifter etc. In looking at the "bay" for bike stuff I knew I had seen 11 Speed Dia Compe down tube shifters - I think they are ratcheting too. So I thought I would just play it safe and go with the more modern less vintage DT option. Plus if I ever want to go to 11 speed I guess I am good to go. As Kontact pointed out there may be a bit of backlash but the "bay" just threw me a 20% coupon so for less than $70 delivered I ordered a set. That is not much more than a vintage SunTour on the "bay" and as several of you pointed out I would have to get real lucky to find anything at the local bike co-op. Plus I would have made a fair donation there too. So not a vintage shifter but hopefully the safer and more future proof choice for perhaps just a bit more $.

Maybe I can get the levers powder coated black - I wonder how that would hold up to wear on the levers?

BTW: I also learned that my 10speed GRX rear derailleur has the same pull as Tiagra at 1.4. Microshift does make a thumb shifter for Tiagra 10 speed - SL-T10B. However, I could not find any of those for sale on-line.

Thanks for the help ... I have learned so much from this crowd. Should have Mr. Pink finished in the next couple of weeks. I will post.

Kontact 

With 1.4 actuation a standard ratchet shifter might be more accurate since it will move a fair amount, but shouldn't go too far. The shifter you bought works with Sram 1:1, so you may find it backlashy with 1.4.

zacster

I have (or had, my son has it now) an old custom built Davidson that I ran with friction Campy Record DT shifter and derailleur and a 10sp Shimano wheel that shifted perfectly. The thing with it is that the HG Shimano cassette shifts so quickly and the spacing is so small that it just feels natural to give the shifter a light touch. And it is the ramps on the cassette that really makes a difference. The old 6 speed shifting, with the clanging and clunking, just doesn't happen. You are almost never between gears and the whole thing is silent. I'll get to ride it again in a few weeks when I visit.

Bike Gremlin

Old Shimano all-metal friction-shifting ones are pretty good (robust, durable, work nicely).

If the "10speed road" means 2x5, it's all good.
If it means 10 sprockets on the rear, then you might want to use a 10+ speed MTB RD, or an 11+ speed road RD (or the new, Shimano Tiagra 4700 10-speed RD), because they move less left-right per each mm of cable pull/release (RD movement ratio).
Why?
Because on a 10-speed cassette sprockets are thinner and very close to each other, so tuning it by hand with a friction shifter can be a bit "touchy" if your RD moves a lot for little shifter lever movement.

An alternative would be to find an indexed DT shifter (with pre-set clicks per gear change).
Used (old) 10-speed indexed DT shifters might be compatible with the old 10-speed standard (5600 & 5700 106, 6700 Ultegra etc.).
Those will work with the 9 and fewer-speed MTB and road derailleurs, and the above-noted old road 10-speed derailleurs.

Relja

Kontact 

This is also my experience, though I'm using old Suntour and Mavic systems with 8 speed HG. I especially like the shifting with the Mavic friction derailleur because the rather large pulley-to-cog gap helps hide any imprecision, yet it still shifts immediately. The Suntour ratchets (Sprint) are more fiddley due to the pulley running closer and the ratchet backlash - but I'm getting used to it.

What combination of shifters and derailleurs are you using? Old Campy friction shifters from the '80s and earlier were built for derailleurs that had something like 2.0 actuation, but 8 speed and later is around 1.4, like current Shimano 11. So you either have that combination of small diameter shifter with a derailleur that uses a lot of cable that I suggested, or you have those rare post-8 speed Doppler shifters with the larger body diameters. Or you have all pre-8 speed.

Crankycrank

Here is a chart with pull ratios for most derailleurs you can also use. Look to the right at column "S" Unfortunately, no Campy. Bicycle Cassettes & Drivetrains - Google Sheets

rccardr 

Lots of down tube shifters in The Lab- in fact everything but the Canyon Endurace CF has ‘em.
For indexed, anything Shimano from 6 to 10 speed.
For friction, 6207 Shimano are the faves. Enough pull for any 6-7-8-9-10 speed cassette, totally reliable, take a nice polish.

masi61

https://velo-orange.com/products/dia...1s-dt-shifters

Are these the ones you are referring to, the ones you purchased?

Breadfan

I'm running the Suntour Power Ratchet downtube shifters on a 9spd Ultegra cassette and RD and it looks to have enough room to do 10. Sensitive, yes, but not too tricky. Very inexpensive.

FordTrax

zacster

What I have is from the early 80s. It is the classic Nuovo Record. Whatever it is it has worked well. I would go back and forth between my Chorus 10 setup on my carbon bike and the friction shifting on my steel bike when I still had them both in my house and I didn't feel like I was missing anything by not having indexing. One of the reasons shifting got so much better was the cassettes that were built with specific cogs in specific order so the ramps would line up, i.e. Hyperglide. It really helps with shifting regardless of whether it is indexed or not. I remember in the old days the shops would have a board of cogs that could all be mixed and matched, but shifting sucked. Now a cassette comes in a box all tied together and it is hard to find separate cogs. The indexing came along with the cassettes but IMHO I think we wouldn't have indexing if the cassettes were better back then. And of course they were freewheels, not cassettes.

Kontact 

Your experience matches mine, and I wondered the same about indexing. But I think MTBs would have called for SIS if not road.

I used a Gran Sport derailleur for awhile when my Mavic was broken. Worked well.