MattTriv

I've got a low-end 3x7 mountain bike equipped with a Shimano Tourney groupset. I'd like to upgrade the derailleur to a clutch derailleur but after hours of research, I still can't find one that is 7-speed and compatible. After doing some reading here, it appears that a Shimano Deore RD-M592 might work even though it is 9-speed. Is that the case?

maddog34

yep, it'll work.. a modern design 6-7-8 chain from SRAM or KMC will help. SRAM PC-830 chain is a tiny bit narrower, outside, than the KMC 8.1 chains...

MattTriv

The bike has a KMC Z7 chain.

Now I am finding some conflicting information. Bing AI says that the RD-M592 has "a stronger guide spring but no cage clutch." PerformanceBike.com says: "Chain Retention: Shadow." The Amazon page says it has Shadow and a "stronger guide spring." But I can't find anything that says straight up: this product has a clutch. And I can't find a specifications page for it. Very odd. Do you know of any other clutch derailleurs that might work?

maddog34

dude.. do your own shopping....

KCT1986

Shimano RD with the 'clutch' is what they call 'Shadow Plus'. Don't think that there are any that compatible with less than MTB 10 speed. The cable pull of Shimano MTB 10 speed & higher have different specs than Shimano MTB less than 10 speed.

Shimano RD for gravel that have 'Shadow Plus' use the Road 11 speed cable pull spec which is also different from Road < 11 speed.

MattTriv

Thanks. I was initially confused by the way Shimano uses the term "Shadow." Terrible marketing.

MattTriv

The conclusion to this thread is that there is no upgrade path from a Shimano Tourney RD to an RD with a clutch.

At the time of this writing, no vendor has seen fit to address this market, despite the obvious widespread demand for such an upgrade. In order to get a clutch RD on a Tourney bike, you would almost certainly need to purchase additional parts such as a shifter, cassette, etc. that would end up costing as much as a Tourney-equipped bike itself. So, unless somebody creates an RD with a clutch for 7/8-speed MTBs, the only practical course of action is to shop for a bike that comes with a clutch RD.

shelbyfv

I think you are over estimating the demand. This is a very low end component group and few who own it will care whether the RD has a clutch or not. Don't let the absence of a clutch prevent you from riding the heck out of your bike. Folks rode every kind of MTB terrain w/o clutches for years.

Bill Kapaun

Just because you and one of your friends want one does not make a widespread demand.

If there was such a demand for 7 speed parts, Shimano wouldn't be dropping some of their 7 speed cassettes & free wheel choices.

cyccommute 

Just about any derailer compatible with up to a 9 speed drivetrain is going to work and have a stronger spring than the Tourney. That’s really all you need…a stronger spring. A clutch is only really necessary for 1x systems used in situations where you are riding mountain bikes down rough trails where you get lots of chain bounce to keep the chain from falling off the chainring. If you have a front derailer, you don’t have to worry about the chain falling off and, if you have a better derailer than the Tourney, you won’t have to worry all that much about chain bounce. The RD-M592 will work much better than the Tourney. Hell, an Acera (RD-M360) would work better than a Tourney.

maddog34

seems like the M592 is a good upgrade, and possibly the best choice.. I've installed many of them on my projects... they work fine and are reasonably priced too!... buy it, use it, and enjoy the rides.
And.. by "doing your own shopping", you've learned things along the way.. cool, huh?
something else to learn... you don't NEED a clutch-type derailleur, but they are nice to have... there's a reason that the clutch ders come with an on/off knob.... more research time, eh?

MattTriv

Yes, but how often did they have to stop and put their chains back on?

As I was researching this issue, I came across numerous people posting about it on this forum and others. How many Tourney equipped bikes have sold in discount stores around the world? A million? A billion? Low-end doesn't mean low volume.

veganbikes

On your current bike it isn't really designed for much mountain biking so it really isn't going to need a clutch not that you need a clutch even if it was. Just ride the bike into the ground and save the money towards a bike with the parts you want. Look for a good air fork at the front and ideally on the low end a 1x10 (or 2x10) drivetrain or find something with 11 or 12 speed and keep up with the modern times.

You will be much happier with the new bike with better parts but more importantly it is the suspension components and other parts of it that will improve and that is more important but the nice thing is when you improve the quality of the front fork and the frame you generally also get better drivetrain components which will work better and last longer.

To put things in perspective 7 speed stuff came out in the 80s and into the early 90s for mountain bike parts by the late 90s which was 23+ years ago we were in 9 speed and 13 years ago 10 speed came out and then about 9 years ago 11 speed came out (on the mountain bike side at least). Unfortunately Shimano and others don't make vintage groupsets so the quality declines for the lesser gears as time goes on.

MattTriv

Shimano has a long history of bringing their advanced technologies down to the lower levels. They do that for a reason: that's where the volume is.

MattTriv

Thanks for the excellent advice. A stiffer spring will likely be my next move. Just so you know, I've had many chain drops with the front derailleur on, and off.

Bill Kapaun

So, what "new" technology has filtered down to 7 speed in the last 5 years? 10 years?
Let's see your list!

shelbyfv

I'm sure Shimano sells plenty of Tourney components but that doesn't mean they have incentive to add features. Low cost is the goal, with enough reliability to last for a few years of the use most buyers will require. Few if any big box bikes are bought by avid MTB riders. As you have found, they aren't meant for that. Get the Deore derailleur mentioned several times above, give a thought to your gear combos when you are on rough terrain and start saving for a bike equal to your ability and desired use.

HillRider

Yes they do but the profit is at the higher levels. Tourney is the absolute bottom rung of Shimano's group sets and they aren't going to invest in significant upgrades or new technology for it.

Troul 

what i think the OP is after in regards to the trickle down tech, they are hopeful that something more modern would be backwards compatible that would replace what the bicycle came with stock as a bolt-on & go ordeal.

veganbikes

It sometimes trickles a bit but not to Tourney, Tourney is designed for one purpose to hit a price point and nothing else. It is not designed to last a long time or work very well it is designed to be cheap in all senses of the word. Some of the better tech does trickle down especially in things like Ultegra/XT or 105/SLX and then some of the stuff underneath that but once you hit the 7/8 speed stuff it had long stopped and never really hit it so much but a lot of that stuff is now 30+ years old so there is no need to trickle anything down. 10 and 11 speed stuff is still modern enough and 9 speed at least was late 90s early 2000s so at least only 20+ years old.

oldbobcat

All a clutch does is reduce chain slap when using an extraordinarily long chain for an extraordinarily wide spread of gear ratios. I've never seen a 7-speed cluster that went that wide.

cyccommute 

Chain slap can certainly occur in 7 speed drive trains. Any long in tooth mountain biker has horror stories about chain slap. The best way to avoid it is to keep the chain tight by shifting up to a larger ring in the front. 1x systems don’t allow for that so they need a stronger spring and something to dampen the bounce of the derailer.

alcjphil

As a rider who has a 3 x 9 mountain bike I am familiar with chain slap in certain gears particularly when using the small ring. The solution as stated is to never use the 4 smallest cogs when using the small ring. Switching to the middle ring really reduces that problem. Derailleur clutches were a solution that came along when 1x setups became popular
My 3 x 9 setup was high end many years ago when I bought that bike. Clutch derailleurs had not been invented at that point. You simply learned how to deal with its limitations

oldbobcat

Absolutely. To a lesser extent, the same applies to 2x drivetrains, especially when the jump between chainrings exceeds 10 teeth. And a degree of chain slap is always present, which is why high end mountain bikes came with chain stay protectors. The problem the clutch seeks to solve is when chain slap is so pronounced that it causes missed shifts or derailment.

maddog34

i have a 13-36 5 sp. freewheel here... and the same in 7 sp. too.

13-40 FREEWHEEL, 8 sp.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25491715367...Bk9SR9ySwdihYg

i have a 9 sp. 14-42 FREEWHEEL here...from a Hyper CarbonX CF MTB... and yes, the axle was bent :-D The bike is now wearing a 10 sp. cassette and a nice new Deore disc hubset... it also now has a Shimano hollowtech crank, a 1 lb. weight shave.... and a Rockshox Reba fork, a 2.5 lb. weight shave......

etcetera.
not flaming, just updating your knowledge base.