halfnine

I am looking for a folder for the little woman. In descending order of priority:

1. Light. She only weighs about a buck ten, so light enough for her to carry in/out of our criminally small flat and up/down two flights of stairs into a cramped corridor through wickedly hinged doors that are difficult to keep open with a bike. The doors are further a nuisance in that there is a step that you must walk (and carry the bike) over.

2. Twenty inch wheels (speculative on my part). She is not the most competent of bike riders. I could easily see her doing a nice lawn dart after hitting a pothole. She is the more prolific money maker of the two of us, so can’t exactly have her going out on the sick.

3. Six speeds with some real low range. I doubt she’d ever need anything higher than around 70 gear inch but probably at least 6 speeds with some real low range. The bike is less likely to be used for commuting than for weekends around and outside of London. I imagine I could always swap out down to a 38T chainring to do the trick.

4. Folds well enough for non-rush hour commuting. Again talking about some weekend trips here and some buses/trains. Doesn’t need to fold fast.

5. Looking at up to around 500 quid or 700-800 USD (range depending on how much Ben’s been printing lately). Frequently travel to both London and Chicago so bikes readily available in USA or UK are available to me. I won’t hesitate to pay more, if necessary, but want to see what is out there.

Currently, we do have a Dahon Speed D7 (2008) that I got about 2 months ago as an introduction to the world of folding bikes. It does the job for her but it is just too heavy (over 30 lbs) for her to lug around. I know I could drop a little of the weight off the Dahon (rack, kick stand, mud flaps) and lighten the thing up a bit. But, still not sure it would do the trick (and I think she’d kind of appreciate the mud flaps out here). Anybody have any weights for the parts on the Dahon as all I could find weights for was the rack and pedals.

Alternatively, I am leaning towards the possibility of building up a light Xootr Swift. She’d carry the Xootr and I’d carry the Dahon. But, I’d ride the Xootr. I have a hard tail I built up a few years back that just won’t fit in the space I have here in London. I was thinking of swapping out the parts onto a Xootr frame next time out in Chicago. Obviously, I’d need new wheels, a new chainring, and possibly a new bottom bracket (currently 68 x 110) and seatpost (currently 27.2 mm). I am not sure of those dimensions on the Xootr. Anything else I am missing? And on the Xootr what are the dimensions of the fold? Is there anything about the fold that would make it difficult for her to carry or particularly difficult to take on the bus/train once or twice a week.

timo888 

I've got a Xootr Swift and a Brompton (my wife's). I would not recommend the Swift for your 110-pound better half because it would be rather unwieldy for her to carry. Brompton should be on your short list and also the Tikit (video). The smaller wheels are fine. No need to worry.

Regards
T

P.S. You asked about the Xootr Swift's folded dimensions.

P.P.S. Almost any folding bike with 16" wheels or larger will be unwieldy for a woman weighing 110 pounds to carry because the bike cannot be supported on the hip or carried close enough to the body to ease the strain. The Tikit can be easily rolled.

invisiblehand

If she likes the ride of the Dahon, why not get one of the light Mu models? I believe it is significantly lighter, folds quick, and there are a lot of dealers so she could test ride prior to purchasing. And you clearly know how to swap a chainring to get the gear range she desires.

Personally, I would pick 20" wheels for the better choice of tires and ride. I don't think that the difference in safety -- particularly during daylight -- is large.

InfiniteRegress

+1 on the Dahon Mu models. I have a Speed Pro TT and am about your wife's size (barely 5 feet tall and about 115, depending on how many donuts I've had that day). I'm not a total weakling, but definitely not one with lots of upper-body strength; however, my Speed Pro, weighing in at around 21 pounds, is light enough for me to carry short distances easily. The Mu models are even lighter. All the Dahons seem to work well for those of us who are on the small side. The one thing I really like about my Dahon (and I think this applies to the Mu models, but I could be wrong) is that the handlebars are highly adjustable. You can turn them pretty far inwards, which is especially important for those of us who are, uh, vertically challenged.

InfiniteRegress

My Dahon has 20 inch wheels and weighs in around 21 pounds. I can carry it easily and I'm a woman almost exactly the same size (~5 feet & 115 lbs). I do rest it on my hip for support. I'm not walking exceedingly long distances with it - usually just from the train and outside of the Metro station where I unfold and ride. Us little woman can sometimes be stronger than we appear

timo888 

Yes, it's hard to generalize, since it really depends on body-type and musculature. My daughter has much more upper-body strength than either my wife or my sister. But generally speaking nonetheless ... neither you with your Dahon nor I with my Swift could go shopping with our bikes, say, or carry them for a long distance through a vast train station, with anywhere close to the success enjoyed by the gentleman in the rolling Tikit video. Weight can be far less relevant to a folding bike's totability than other ergonomic features.

Regards
T

invisiblehand

In general, I agree that rolling the bike is quite useful and almost always preferred. But the OP mentioned taking the bike down -- and presumably will have to take the bike up -- two flights of steps. Weight becomes pretty important in that situation.

brakemeister

I like my Curve D3 .... no fenders no carrier just a couple Klickfix attachment points for several add ons, couple of lighter bits and a Thudbuster seatpost ... its a very comfortable bike ....
A Curve SL is even better and lighter yet ...

If rolls real easy with the seatpost left extended there is a good video on You tube somewhere but I dont have the time and finding it at the moment

Thor

K6-III

Dahon D3, Brompton, Bike Friday Tikit.

timo888 

Again, I am not saying that weight is unimportant, but that it is not necessarily the predominant factor when considering ease of portability. How compact and also how secure the fold is --i.e. how it stays together-- or whether it has an integrated well-placed grip -- may be far more important in many scenarios. Carrying, say, a single-speed Swift configured for ultra-lightness yet with nothing in the design to prevent its front wheel from turning when it's folded, is more difficult than carrying a compact Brompton or Tikit weighing 5 pounds more.

The advice boils down to this: never scratch a folding bike from your list simply because it's heavier than others by several pounds.

Regards
T

InfiniteRegress

+1 - The hardest part about being on the smaller side is not really dealing with things that are heavier but rather things that are larger. My arm span is less than 5 feet, so getting my arms physically around something can be really difficult (compared to what an average sized person can get their arms around). For example, with my Dahon, the magnet does not always keep the bike completely closed as effectively as I would like. An average size guy would probably hold it closed under his arm (as I saw my coworker do with his), but I can't do that because my arm doesn't reach all the way around. I have had to improvise using a bungee cord (which works just fine). But, yes, you have to look at a lot of other things. For me, compactness can be even more important than total weight.

social suicide

Oh c'mon this whole thread is B.S. You really just want another folder and you're looking for a way to justify it. I bought a 1968 Legnano folder for my wife, I've let her ride it once. When I bought my third folder, I had to make up a mistress. BTW, I'm still married.

The "wife's bike".......

folder fanatic

Make sure she really wants to join you in folding bike use and ownership. Do not pressure her too much. Sometimes we tend to try to push someone a little too much without being aware of it when in reality, deep down, we just want the bike for our own use.

If she is at least somewhat interested, then read my Geocities Website for the novice and even more advanced users for the best purchasing experience. I use this system for purchase method for all three bikes when I was serious in buying them. It helps to eliminate unneeded and even unwanted chatter or pressure from overanxious sales people to help you get the bike within your wants/needs and budget.

Then go together and get the best bike for her (and maybe for you too)!

Good luck (O.K., I do admit I am rooting for the Brompton being picked).

halfnine

I'll clarify a few things here. I am definitely looking at a bike for the wife. She wants to ride the D7 but unless I am around to carry it up/down the stairs for her, she can't be bothered. She also prefers that I go out and ride with her which would obviously indicate we'd need a second bike. And, it has to be a folder because we only have about 380 sq ft of space (better than the 270 sq ft we had in Tokyo, though)

I have definitely been considering the Brompton for her but posted to see what other people might think based on the criteria I indicated. There are many things I do like about the Brompton. Here in London they are readily accessible, should be easier for her to carry, and from what I can gather from the website it should be easy for me to spec out one that would best suit her. I do think that if we ended up with a 16" bike that it would likely be a Brompton.

The big problem I have with 16" is I think it will be too twitchy for her. Although we might spend weekends (in the summer) riding outside of London, our local ride here could possibly be getting outside on good days and cruising around the park. She is not really comfortable with London traffic (can't blame her) so the ride would ultimately involve riding along the canal to get to the park. For those who aren't in London, relative to riding on the streets the canal path is narrow, bumpy, rutted and frequently wet. Plus maneuverability is often compromised by walkers, runners and other bikers so you are not always allocated the best line. And if you screw up, well you'd end up in the canal. So I think a 20" would be far more versatile and less twitchy for her in these conditions but having never ridden a 16" this is pure speculation.

InfiniteRegress

I tried that. Had the bike all picked out for my other half too - the MuSL. And then I had to admit to myself that I really just wanted it for me. Glad to hear this doesn't mean the demise of my marriage.

makeinu

My 2c:

If your wife simply can't be bothered to carry the D7 in/out of the apartment then I can't imagine her feeling much differently about any other 16" or 20" folder. I mean, we are literally talking about a handful of inches/pounds of variation on objects which are officially too big to "carry"[on] (according to the airlines ).

I think the Brompton errs on the large side in fitting and may be too stretched out for your wife to cruise on. I would say a Dahon Curve might be better, except you'll probably get better dealer support for Bromptons in the Uk (as opposed to here in the US where the dealer support for Dahons is better).

As far as the "twitchiness" of smaller wheels another way to describe it is "maneuverability". Since you said maneuverability may be compromised in some of the environments you plan on riding in then the smaller wheels will help. I know my wife (whose a noncyclist) finds my 8" bike much easier to control alongside walkers, runners, and other bikers (especially when riding slow) and I agree. IMO smaller wheels are more forgiving of mistakes and irregularities because they're easier to "turn around". Think of an oil tanker heading for a iceberg and unable to turn away in time. While "stable" handling may be good for holding the line on an open road, if you don't have the "best line" then you're better off with smaller wheels or else you might find yourself in the canal because it's too late to completely turn the big wheels away. Also, don't let the words "stable handling" confuse you. While larger wheels may be more "stable" in terms of turning (ie they tend to not want to turn left/right) they are less "stable" in terms of balance (ie they tend to want to turn over).

That being said, my advice is that you should simply buy whatever you think you'll be willing to carry in/out of the apartment along with the D7. For the kind of riding you're describing any folder should do the job well enough. So the big thing is getting your wife out there, which as you said, is only going to happen if you go with her and it's as convenient as possible for her.

mrbrown

My wife is 5 feet tall, she rides both my Curve and P24 with ease. But I carry the bikes most of the time, haha.

She does prefer the 20-inch wheels of the P24 though. She finds the Curve a tad twitchy for her taste. Also having a bit more gearing is useful for her on slopes. So usually I end up riding the Curve and she the P24.

I am working on convincing my wife that the Hammerhead 8.0 that I am eyeing is really meant for her. It is not working well so far. Hahaha!

folder fanatic

I own a Dahon 20" folder (Boardwalk), a 16" folder (Piccolo) and a Brompton C or Companion type model. I am female and the general size of your wife. I carry all three bikes around, but do admit I avoid it as much as possible. My 2 smaller folders (Piccolo & Brompton) are rather light at around 25 pounds. My Boardwalk is heavier and not so easy to carry for me-even though I just carried it into the library to type this on the computer. My living space is even more cramped than your is-at 10x12 feet-so I do appreciate the folder's ability to sqeeze into any small odd corner or space.

My favorite bike I have at present is the Brompton. I knew after just 5 minutes on the demostrator Brompton this was the bike for me. The weight is the same as my Piccolo. But it is more balanced in the folded position and with the new means of locking the rear wheel now in the riding position. I like the customing option that Brompton offers now. My simple C Brompton was picked since I was not sure what exactly I wanted out of the bike before the company offered this purchasing option. So do take advantage of this choice. Dahons don't have this. You might spend more money in the long run to create the bike you really want.

I recommend since you live in the London area to hire/rent a Brompton for at least a day. Take it around with you everywhere you plan on taking your proposed bike. Ride in crowds and the canals (first you then your wife-just tell her to take it easy). Take it up and down hills. Both of you carry it up and down the stairs, into public transit (if you plan to take it on buses and trains), and in cars. Then base on what that particular bike does have in features and newly gained experience, discuss it out at the shop you plan on buying the bike if you go ahead with it.

As for me, I have taken all three of my bikes in similar situations. In crowds and rather rough roads, I prefer my Brompton as it is the most stable and the folding wing nut system is the most secure of the folding mechanisms that I have experienced in folding bikes. I feel more confident with this bike than the Dahons. The ISO 349 tyre size that the Brompton has is far closer to my 20 inch Boardwalk bike than my little Piccolo's ISO 305 one. I find that my Brompton is very stable even going down hills. I was able to steer myself out of a power wobble caused by a careless pedestrian stepping out in front of me while going down a steep hill that might have been trouble on other bikes. That makes it a very safe machine and will be with me for many more years to come!

somnatash

+1 on folder fanatics explanations.

And Makeinu is right too, the brommie is a surprisingly "large bike" when it comes to fitting. A brompton owning, (5'10" tall) woman here so biased advice, but still I like to give some info on the brommi, in case you wasn't aware of and in case she likes the bike but fitting is only "almost right":

There are different types of handlebars which differ slightly in geometry: the s-typ with straight bar has the handlebar lower (actually the s-stem itself is longer than the m-stem, the lower handlebar position in the s-typ results only from "no rise" in the bar). Because the s-bar is lower, some people recommend it for the smaller person. Which is, in the case of most small woman, not the best advice IMHO. The s-typ has the bar not only lower but it also angles further away from the seat post (=longer effective top tube).

Most (smaller) woman have longer legs in comparison to men of the same height - so shorter arms and shorter upper body in comparison. They need a shorter top tube. So my advice would be: if the m-typ has the bar too high, instead of going for the s-typ, ask the lbs to swap the ~13cm high m-bar for a normal "high riser" bar of about 6 cm. So you would get a lower bar which is still near to the rider.

And you would have another plus point:
The "twitchiness" or "maneuverability" of the brompton results not only from the 16" wheels (which are with ETRO 349 not so very much smaller than the regular 20" ETRO 406) but also from the very narrow bar (= hands near together). At the hight of the m-bar, for folding reasons the bar has to be that narrow - but if you have it lower, you can have it wider too - the bike will still fold fine and the steering will gain control if she grabs the bar in a wider position.

See a pic of that kind of mod, bykerouac did it (albeit for a windier position, not because he is small):
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...9&postcount=18

Another method to shorten the effective top tube is a seatpost adapter which brings the seat more to the front, the lbs should have it.

I the new lavender colour! Gimme that with the new wide range 6 speed hub and ti-extremities and I carry it smiling onto both towers of London bridge

havm66z

If you're in UK lots, you could consider the Mezzo as well. Which seems (to me anyway) to be the British small folder that is overlooked. You do sacrifice a bit of folded size. Subjectively online, some say the ride is better than a Brompton. May be worth a look.

a.k.a Ori Bike in other countries.

YMMV.