Saitoh17

I'm thinking of getting a Zizzo Liberte and the thing is I have a broken 2021 Trek FX Sport 4 Carbon. The frame got wrecked in a car accident but the 1x11 speed drivetrain and hydraulic disc brakes are still working. Would it be possible to have my local Trek shop transplant those onto the Zizzo? Would it mess up the fold or anything?

Duragrouch

You might mount the drivetrain; cassette if it will fit on the existing Zizzo freehub body (don't know if it will accommodate 11sp), however the derailleur might hang too low on 20" wheels with a big 1X cassette; They do now make some clever rear derailleurs to solve that issue with 1X gearing on 20". The crank is probably transplantable to the Zizzo, if the bottom bracket bearing setup is compatible.

The hydraulic brakes? No. First, you would need to swap the hubs to hold the discs, assuming same number of spoke holes, a lot of work. Note: Standard front hubs are 100mm O.L.D.; Some folders like Dahons (without disc brakes) use 74mm front hubs, and so might the Zizzo. Second, you need frame and fork mounts for disc brake calipers, mechanical or hydraulic, and the Zizzo Liberte has none.

From all I've seen on here, the Liberte appears to be a good value. My only gripe is it lacks discs, which I want for my next upgrade, I live in a place with big hills.

The (folding) Origami Bull is equal or a bit more expensive than the Liberte, depending on what day it is, and it has disc brakes. I don't know if the caliper mounts are same as the Trek.

Fentuz

I doubt a trek dealer would do it. An independent shop will.

now, i don t think the zizzo is a good donor because they are not disc brake based. a tern verge or a Fnhon would be better donor.


I think you should look for a disc brake frameset and once you have one, if it does not come with wheels, get a set of litepro/silver something wheels with the correct hub space.
the rear tends to be 130mm and the litepro freehub is supplied with a spacer for 7to10 speed cassette and can be fitted without spacer for 11s
the front (disc) tends to be 100mm. Rim can be 74 or 100.

also, i would go for 140mm rear disc and 160mm front. 160 all around will work but the mechanical advantage on 20” wheel might cause modulation issues and rear skids.

if you use it as an hybrid bike, the shimano drive train will be fine however, you might need a 55/56T chainring.
i recently converted my mini velo from 9s to 11s using my cyclocross spares and it is good but, i keep to road and groomed path. Off road might be a little too much for the long cage derailleur

Saitoh17

There's a used Tern Verge P10 near me that I'm also considering but that already comes with a Deore drivetrain and hydraulic disc brakes so I wouldn't need to do any organ transplanting. Not like I'm specifically trying to turn a folding bike into a race bike or anything, I just happen to already have the parts laying around.

Duragrouch

Speed is speed, and especially if you enjoy a light race-bike feel, you'll enjoy same on a similarly equipped folder. I've gone the opposite direction on my folder, larger heavier tires, both for flat protection, and I wanted a bit more stability from the original highly-agile feel of small wheels which exceeded even my old 700c criterium race bike, I wanted a bit calmer steering. Heavier tires increase rotating inertia, and taller tire section increases the fork trail/caster geometry on the same fork.

jdogg111

I have the liberte, great bike. I did some upgrades along this line. 44 front ring swap out, 11-25 10 speed rear cassette swap, 10 speed trigger shifter instead of the grip shifter, which I hated, kenda contact 1.95 tires, iso saddle given to me by my back doc,amazing change, he's a bike rider and purchased 50 of them he gives to his patients that ride, good guy. Also longer cage sram rear derailleur, 10 speed. To make the conversion work, had to lose the plastic chain protector next to largest rear sprocket, no big deal. And lastly, new 10 speed chain. Good luck.

tds101 

The cassette isn't compatible with a freewheel, period. 7 speed and below is freewheel, 8 and up is cassette. This isn't debatable, as I would know. The brakes aren't compatible as there's no mounting points for the disc calipers, and the stock wheels don't accept disc rotors. Crank arms might work, the derailleur is long cage, so that's a NO.

A recommended donor bike could be an Origami Bull, or just getting an Origami Swift frame and doing a custom build.

Origami Bull Folding Bike

Origami Swift Folding Bike

Ron Damon

...or a new, smart canvass like this.

Duragrouch

7 speed Liberte is freewheel? I didn't know but I'll take your word for it, sounds like you own or have investigated the bike. With Dahons, 7 speed and above have been freehubs for, gosh, 20 years now (although the 7 freehub is too short for 8 speed and requires a transplant), whereas I think their 6 speed bikes now are freewheels.

tds101 

"Freewheels and freehubs are both mechanisms on bicycles that allow riders to coast while riding. The main difference between the two is that a freewheel's coasting mechanism is built into the gear cluster, while a freehub's coasting mechanism is a sub-assembly of the wheel's hub. Freehubs are more reliable and efficient than freewheels, and allow for faster cassette swapping."

It could possibly be a freehub (after further analysis), but it's still not possible to simply remove a freehub and replace it with a cassette. They're not simply upgradable, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong here...
​​​​

Duragrouch

IIRC, 5 speed freewheels back in the day were fairly swappable, similar thickness and same threading onto hub, though I could be way wrong about that, I only used a couple and never replaced.

With freehubs and cassettes, they are easily swapped, If and Only If, the two are compatible. I began with Uniglide 7 speed, high cog threaded, no lockring. Next set of wheels had freehub threads outside and inside, to accommodate UG and Hyperglide with lockring. Then the next set of wheels came with a bit longer freehub body, probably 8 speed, wouldn't fit in my 126mm dropouts, so I put the old freehub body on the new wheels. Now, my mid-00s Dahon 7 speed, the hyperglide freehub body is as short as Uniglide, but has a shoulder on the end to allow 11T small cog. If I want to upgrade to 8 speed (planned), I need to change the freehub body, 8 speed is very slightly longer. I think 8,9,10 bodies, maybe even 11, all use the same length body, just the cogs and spacers get skinnier. I know sheldon brown has a whole section on this.

tds101 

Every single 7 speed I've swapped out was a FREEWHEEL. And no "cassette" at ALL was compatible. NONE. And they were Dahon, Schwinn, my ORIGAMI folder, etc. Maybe you can disassemble a freehub, and change out the cog, but I've never seen anyone converting a freehub to an 8,9, or 10 speed. Members here in the Folding Bike section are the ones who helped me, step by step.

Duragrouch

Huh, as I've said, I believe ya. Once I graduated from an old recycled 10 speed in 1989 to a decent new race bike, all my 7s have been freehubs and cassettes (usually Shimano 105), but I was also not at the low end. My mid-00s folder uses not-quite the lowest end parts (the hubs are aluminum and not steel), but still toward the low end, and it is 7 cassette on freehub, and so are my other Dahon Speeds except for one that is an 8.

I may have miscommunicated, I don't mean to imply I can swap a freewheel for a freehub and cassette, the hub interfaces are incompatible, nor disassemble any freehub body, I can only replace the cassette on one, and going above 7 speed does require a different freehub body, it's a skosh longer. But my 7 speed body is still different from my early 7s in that it has shoulders on the outboard splines to allow an 11T cog, and uses a hyperglide lockring instead of threaded smallest cog. Anyway, I hope that meshes with your understanding, but if not, do say so.

Fentuz

not sure about that, our helios d7 bought from dahon uk main dealer was a freewheel.
that freewheel 7s wheelset is now on my mother dahon hammerhead which I built knowing that zero maintenance would be done to it. 🥹

seat_boy

Some 7 speed drivetrains have freewheels. Other have freehubs and cassettes. This doesn't seem difficult... what I didn't realize until I checked just now is that 8 and even 9 speed freewheels exists. Who knew?

Duragrouch

Now that's a surprise.

Duragrouch

Well I guess not a surprise as Dahons are known to vary widely in different international markets. It's especially confusing when they use the same name; There was a thread from someone that had just bought a Dahon "Speed", seemed a good price, but upon seeing the pics I could see it was what is known here as a Boardwalk, not as good a frame, and I think also freewheel instead of freehub.

Freehubs, in my opinion, are not about ease of changing gears. The advantage is that the large diameter freehub body is much stiffer in bending than the small diameter axle (by an order of magnitude), and thus places the drive side axle bearing near the right dropout, versus freewheel design where it's much further inboard, and thus, a freehub puts less bending stress on the axle for the same load, or greater load capability for the same axle stress. This was a big deal for loaded touring bikes, and mountain bikes. Even if the axle were of such premium steel that it held up to the stress, it still flexed just as much as lesser steel, so the bearing cones would be more misaligned than a freehub.

tds101 

All the bikes I've purchased here in the USA that were 7 speed were freewheel. I've NEVER encountered a freehub. And I've never seen a freewheel above 7 speed either... Go figure!?

Saitoh17

Doesn't the Liberte have an 8 speed cassette? Ran into the freewheel thing earlier with an Indiegogo bike (total scam). They advertised it with a 9 speed sora and it came with a 7 speed tourney so it couldn't be upgraded. That experience is actually why I'm asking this question lol

Fentuz

i have seen both and it confusing. In the end, i realised that the easier way to know was to check the gear ratios:
14-32 => freewheel
11-32 => freehub.

tds101 

I've only seen 14-28 freewheels, nothing above or below those numbers. Anything different I had to do the swap.

Duragrouch

Interesting. 11T high was a gamechanger for 20"/406 wheel bikes. Above that, especially 14T, and high gear is limited to 69 gear inches (with 52 chainring), I suppose high enough for short slow errands, but not ideal for wider conditions. My bare minimum high is 85 gear inches. So that's good to know if I see for sale a freewheel folder, I'll know of that limitation.

seat_boy

Interestingly, I looked at Universal Cycle's web page of freewheels to see what sizes are available, but what they list as 8-9-10 speed "freewheels" look like cassettes to me:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...?category=1665

Anyway, freewheels at least go down to 13t, still not enough for a 20 inch wheel.

Duragrouch

The top two, not certain, can't see in the black color. But all the others are definitely freewheels, as I can see the two-pin spanner nut. No hyperspaceglide lockring.

tds101 

Drift Maniac 11t-28t and 11t-34t freewheels on Amazon. I upgraded and sold the bikes I did the 11t-28t freewheel upgrades on.

https://a.co/d/iL476sV