Ron Damon

I live on a small volcanic outcrop that rises to 3,100masl, and I dispensed with the FD in 2018.

top506

I think I rode my new gravel bike two or three times before I replaced the 1x with a double crank.

Top

zacster

Is it really that hard to stick a brush in there rather than having a dishful of loose cogs that need to be put back together in just the right way? I'd rather use the brush myself.

ScottCommutes

I tear the flap off of a corrugated cardboard box and use that. Cheap, easy, and disposable. The width is perfect

rosefarts

Miche for Campagnolo cassettes come with single rings. Aside from that, I haven’t seen a cassette that fully comes apart since 8 speed. They all seem to have their largest cogs on a carrier and the smallest loose.

I first saw this on triples, XTR 3x8. The crank has nothing to do with this.

If you’re already taking it off, just dip it in simple green and brush it. Probably quicker than disassembly.

t2p

12-21 … … and on an MTB / utility bike …

13ollocks

The 10sp Campag Veloce cassettes (12-25) that I use are fully individual sprockets. "Higher level" (Centaur and upward) cassettes cluster sprockets on Al carriers

grumpus

It was probably 22 32 44 on the front, so 28 to 98 gear inches, seems reasonable for riding roads and cycle tracks. I was going to remove all the accessories and turn it back into a proper off road machine, its utility role was taken over by a mid-drive e-bike, but it was stolen. I have a replacement frameset and some 1980s/90s parts to build into the off road machine that it would have been, and don't worry it will have sufficiently low gearing.

grumpus

Is the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub with cassette no good?

Reynolds 

I have some friends who like to ride fully loaded bikes, mostly on gravel/ripio, with many steep climbs, for 2-3 weeks. They wouldn't change their 3x for anything (well, at least the older ones ).

Duragrouch

IMO, all the downsides of a derailleur system, coupled with all the downsides of an IGH. If you're going to go IGH, do it all, IMO.

Duragrouch

I live in a rented room. No workshop or garage, no solvent cleaner, not allowed, I have to get by with just a scrub sponge and dish soap. It's vastly easier cleaning for me if the cassette comes apart.

Oh for the days at my former employers, every one of them had a machine shop with a solvent cleaner, glass-bead blasting cabinet, mill, lathe, press, and I was cockpit-qualified on everything, worked my way through school as a machinist, all except the welder, I can't weld. I'd stay late or go in on a Saturday to do a full bike overhaul, it was great. Vehicle lifts too, could easily work on my own vehicles.

grumpus

I feel for you, I don't know what I would do without room to work and store bikes.

hokiefyd 

You still want to be able to maintain specific cadences for different situations. Many people who ride e-bikes want pedal assist and not pedal replacement. So you're still putting energy into the system through the pedals and, depending on road speed, still need to be able to maintain the relatively tight range of cadences where the human anatomy works efficiently.

hokiefyd 

This is my use case for triples, also. I ride in the center ring in almost all scenarios (which is usually a 32-36, depending on the bike) and will shift down to the small ring when I've run out of low gear on the middle ring and will shift up to the big ring when I've run out of high gear. Though I have a few 1x bikes, I generally prefer the 3x because I can get the gear range I want without either: big steps in a cassette, or a higher-cost 11 or 12-speed setup that would get me the range I want. I like the 11-13-15-18-21-24-28 spacing on a typical 7-speed cassette. Add a 32 or 34 for 8-speed, and add a 36 or 40 on top of that for 9-speed. I want much more range than that, so I'd need to keep adding sprockets, pushing me into territory where I'd rather not be. For those reasons, I prefer having the range on the front, and thinking of each ring as its own "range", like a 4x4 transfer case, where you have "low range" and "high range". Except on my bikes, I've got "low range", "mid range", and "high range". It works well.

hokiefyd 

For what it's worth, 9-speed cassettes from Microshift, Shimano, and Sunrace are also like this (loose sprockets without spiders or carriers).

smd4

Not exactly. The Dura Ace 9 speed cassette has several sprockets riveted together. For the 12-tooth top gear, the three largest sprockets are riveted together, so are the next two, and the remainder are loose.

hokiefyd 

Thanks. I don't think my words conveyed my meaning. I mean to say that the three (M, S, and S) offer 9-speed cassettes that are fully loose (except for the assembly pins), not that all 9-speed cassettes from them are fully loose. That was my mistake.

Ironically, Shimano have switched up at least some of their 7-speed cassettes so that the 28 and 24 are both riveted to the 21, with a thick spacer behind the 21 to go against the shoulder of the freehub. It seems very much like their 7-speed freewheel construction and I suspect cost savings from that commonality is what drove that decision.

Duragrouch

You also get better chainlines, and that is important when hammering the pedals while climbing out of the saddle, less likely to break the chain. If like me, you are on the low ring when you need bailout lows so probably on the big cogs, middle ring for middle cogs (although the middle ring can do all the cogs because even at extreme small or big cog, the chainline angle is less than on the small or big ring), and big ring when on the small cogs.

I only have double rings so a lot of overlap, it only gives me 2 more gears at the low end, but I still try to follow similar to the above.

hokiefyd 

Yes, similar here. I don't wait until I'm in the largest sprocket to change down to the small ring. Usually by the second- or third-largest...if I need more low gear, I'll go down to the low ring at that point. Similar with the large ring. I may use at least half of the cassette in either the small ring or the large ring, just depending on the situation (to avoid having to shift the front a bunch and get those big cadence changes).

I like all this because it gives me something to do and think about while riding. One of the main reasons I ride is stress relief and I ride to rid my mind of the things that fill it on a daily basis at work. Giving it something to think about, like shifting gears and traversing the "drivetrain ranges" as my speed changes, is good therapy for me. I fully recognize that it can get complicated (some may say unnecessarily so) for those who may be new to cycling, kids, etc., and I absolutely acknowledge how a 1x system can simplify things.

One of my MTBs has a 1x, and I put an oval ring on it, just to play with that and see how it made the ride different. I like it.

I like all the bike things, really. The variety of choice makes this hobby/sport/activity interesting.

Duragrouch

I like manual transmissions over automatic, 2X or 3X cranks over 1X, sailboats with more than 1 sail, chef knife over food processor, liquid multi-fuel backpacking stove over cartridge stove, more spokes versus fewer, homemade wax/oilskin cotton over goretex, cast iron or stainless over non-stick, manual air pump over CO2 inflator, tubes over tubeless, typing over voice input, separate shifters over brifters, panniers over bikepacking, 2 cross or 3 cross over radial spoking, wide-top rack over narrow, spoke protector over not, long-cook over instant anything, restored over new, fixing it myself over bike shop, Zippo over Bic, metal over plastic, analog over digital.

Andrew R Stewart 

The cog set/der shifting went as well as the then current der systems did because, no surprise, they were of current shifting components (chain, cogs, der, levers).

The IGH shifting was pretty much the same as other IGH hubs of the time. Relax/coast for a moment while shifting the IGH and resume pedal pressure. I don't remember and gear ratio limits for the IGH, I think that was more a concern for off road or tandems then the types of bikes that usually had these Sachs 2x and 3x IGH cassette hubs, folders and other more transportation type bikes (the exception being where I first saw these hubs, on Bike Fridays which are more about travel than transportation IMO. IIRC Bike Friday ran on the hubs ability to offer an "overdrive" w/o a ft der. Remember these bikes ram nominally 20" tires, not big 700c) Andy (likely one of the few here who has overhauled a Sachs IGH cassette hub, but don't ask for specifics as it was way long ago...)

Duragrouch

I picked up a mint condition Dahon folder with 3-speed IGH, from a grad student that had bought it before coming to town, didn't know buses here had bike racks, never used the Dahon, only used his mtb. I bought it instantly based on condition and price. I took it for a ride, unsufficient gearing for typical west coast cities with significant hills, and notably that's with small wheels so inherently low geared. I think 168% range, even worse than Dahons with 7-speed derailleur with a bit under 300%, which itself was insufficient, my 2X conversion gives me 400%, that's bare minimum for me. But I'll find someone to use that 3-speed.

Bike Friday, not certain, but I think they started out with triple cranks, which can't do racer highs on 20" with a standard 52T ring, but was adequate for touring (just like mine). Later I think they offered the 3x8 IGH with no front derailleur, which many bought, but guess what? They are commonly available on the used market at great discount, I'm sure because of the cost of annual maintainence and repairing the IGH, or the hub is trashed because ridden in the wet and not given a good annual regreasing, it doesn't take long for serious rust with any neglect. All-derailleur used BFs command higher prices. Their recent bikes offer wide 2X, but being BF, you can get anything you want upon request, even an IGH I'm sure, but that doesn't appear as a standard option on their website.

Dahon offered from the factory the Speed TR (touring) with nice touring racks front and rear, front dyno hub with lights, better handlebar and stem setup with nice bar ends, nicer crank, quick-removeable pedals, fenders all standard, but... 3x7/8 IGH. And not cheap, I think they were about $1200 circa 2008, that was a lot. Not nearly as common on the used market, but when they do show up, they are cheap, or don't sell. I have never seen a Dahon with a factory triple, and the factory doubles I've seen were all 52/42, not enough range, aimed at the sporty market. My 2X (wide, 50/34) conversion transformed the bike, but I guess no big market for that.

Heat88

The chainring on my electric bike has 53 teeth I think, and there would be plenty of room for 2 more chainrings. On my manual bike that has a 42T chainring, there wouldn't be room for the sensor that's on the bottom bracket and the plastic ring with embedded magnets that's on the crank axle/spindle. Some electric bikes have the pedal assist sensor on a wheel I think. There would be room for that kind of sensor on my manual bikeI know it does. Somehow the first and third posts of the thread got combined in my head and made me come up with the idea that 1 chainring bikes were made for Europe.

grumpus

I have a rear hub motor that has the pedal assist sensor in the freehub body, nothing external to snag on stuff.