sgtmetcalfmn

My wife has a 2021 LIV Avail with Shimano Claris components with disc brakes. She is very unhappy with the shifting quality, we are wondering if we can upgrade to a better quality and maybe changing from 8 speed cassette to a 9,10,11,12 speed cassette.
and maybe even changing to 105 group set but want to make sure they will interghange. She loves the way mine shifts with the GRX 600 series any help and recommendations would be appreciated.

Camilo

First step is to ask what sort of work has been done to improve the shifting? The reason I ask is because my wife has a bike with 8 speed Claris and it shifts fine.

An 8 speed rear hub will accept a 9 or 10 speed cassette. Not sure about 11 though. But current 10 speed Shimano and Microshift stuff is very good if you decide to go that way.

Best to post this sort of question in the mechanics forum though.

SpedFast

Has any work been done on the drive train? And if so, was the person experienced? I ask because I just tuned up my neighbor's Cannondale with Shimano Claris and it's smooth unless you're putting down pressure on the pedals while trying to shift. Your wife's bike probably just needs some fine tuning on the rear derailleur. I'm OCD when it comes to shifting and I'm constantly tweaking on the cable adjusters. But that's just me,

icemilkcoffee 

What exactly was her complaint? Shimano internal cable brifters with the old pull ratio (ie. ST7900, ST6700, ST5700, ST-R2000, ST-R3000) tend to have a vague feel and vague click. But this is something that gets better after you get used to it. Once you are used to it you won't feel the vagueness any more.
If she really hates the vague feel and must have a solid clunk every time she shifts, then she should try Microshift R8 brifters. These will make a stupendous clunk with every shift. You do need to change the front derailleur to an older Shimano one though because the Claris R2000 FD uses the newer '11 speed' pull ratio, even though the RD still uses the old pull ratio.

sgtmetcalfmn

We have had the local bike shop work on it. He has had it a couple of times and it is still not much better. He did make little improvements, but nothing major. I know these are not top-of-the-line parts but we would like them to work correctly. He adjusted the front and rear derailleur and it made a slight improvement. It's clicking when she puts it in the lower gears. She has tried trimming the gears but it didn't help. I am open to suggestions.

sgtmetcalfmn

It's not so much the way it shifts, its more that she can't shift climbing unless she stops pedaling and the clicking noise when she is in the lower gears.

Iride01 

Sounds like part of the issue is your wife pedals at a low cadence. That requires one to ease up more on the leg muscle when shifts are performed. And like many she might be waiting till it's too late to shift to that next lower gear.

I'm not certain she'll find better and more expensive components any better at shifting if a low cadence is part of the current problem. One should always keep a easy gear combo for pedaling. As soon as it's not easy, then you need to shift to a lower gear ratio. Pedaling should generally be stupidly easy. If the RPM is less than 65 rpm, then it'd be better if she worked on upping her cadence. 75 rpm or better will make a lot of that hard shifting disappear. 90 rpm or better and I hardly have to ease up on the power at all when I shift.

Muscling your bikes pedals is not what fitness is about when you ride a bike. It's only about moving your legs up and down so your blood gets to pumping and your heart rate is a little elevated. I was told by a woman that owned a bike shop back in the 70's that sold me a bike that if I wanted to get leg muscles I should go to a gym.

SpedFast

I almost agreed with you. But he stated in his first post that she loves the way his GRX group set shifts so I'm thinking she must understand the basics of shifting. Or the MTB (GRX) group set is more forgiving? I've not had the pleasure of experiencing one.

mstateglfr 

Yes you can upgrade components.

You don't say if it's disc or rim brake, that impacts what higher level components you buy.
Just know that you have to have the same speed shifters, FD, RD, chain, and cassette. Ideally you will have the same chaining speeds too. Then, depending on your brakes, you may need to change those too so the pull matches the lever pull design.


As for not being able to shift when riding up a hill, you shouldn't shift the front when on the hill- you should shoft the front before the hill and only shift the rear when climbing.
And if there is a clicking noise when riding, the derailleur cable just needs to be adjusted a half turn or so.

PeteHski

I’m not going to attempt a remote diagnosis, but these problems are not inherent to the lower tier groupset. So while an upgrade may well be a cure, it should be possible to cure these symptoms without upgrading all the components.

Is there an alternative bike shop you could try? Your current shop appears to have failed to resolve the problems. Clicking gears should be easy for a competent mechanic.

Herzlos

The clicking noise sounds like it's not engaged smoothly on a gear, which usually means the cable tension isn't quite right.

You can upgrade the components for a smoother experience but adjustment will be the same. GRX400 is the 10-speed which should be compatible.

It's worth noting though that beyond a point it's almost certainly cheaper / less hassle to upgrade the bike. The Avail 2 isn't super expensive to begin with; the whole bike doesn't cost much more than the GRX400 groupset.
If she likes your bike and is having difficulties with hills, then it may be a good excuse to get her a gravel bike that already has GRX400 on it.

Jughed

For what it's worth - most of the time, I need to adjust my derailleurs after they come back from the bike shop. Clicking in certain gears is usually fixable by a 1/4 or 1/2 turn of the barrel adjuster.

I've found that just about all of the Shimano/Sram stuff will shift just fine if adjusted correctly. And that my bottom of the barrel 11sp Sram Apex shifts better than my 11sp 105.

Chuckles1

Make sure your derailleur and hanger haven't been bent. I had a bike with problematic shifting, straightened the hanger, and it's been fine ever since. With a little ingenuity you can check and bend the hanger using a wheel and axle that screw into hanger mount. Or make a tool from an old axle and a paint stick, as I did, to check and bend it straight in both horizontal and vertical dimension.

RH Clark

Where I live it's an hour and a half truck ride to a bike mechanic. Luckily this forced me to learn how to properly maintain or repair all my bikes. I think your wife's bike is either shifting improperly because of a bad component or adjustment, or she is having operator issues. You may be very happy with the shifting once these are addressed and an upgrade in parts won't address either issue anyway.

If your current mechanic can't get that drivetrain working, I wouldn't want him to install an upgrade and expect it to work better. Your best option is to learn the basics of adjustment from Park Tool vids on youtube and see if you can get the shifting sorted out yourself. All bikes will occasionally require adjustment or replacement of parts. You don't want to have to run to the bike shop for something as simple as a cable slipped or stretched and you need a tension adjustment on it to make it work. You need to learn all the basic things anyway.

When you know her bike is operating perfectly, then you can decide why something different would help her. You could learn that she would prefer something completely different to fit her riding style. She may prefer an internal geared hub and the way it shifts to any derailure system. She may like a 1X system.

chaadster

Apologies if it sounds like I’m beating a dead horse here, but I agree with those who say the drivetrain should work fine, and the problem situation as described sounds like results of an incompetent mechanic.

It’s unclear which derailleurs, or if both, are giving the OP some trouble, but I run 8spd Claris out back on the Tern and it shifts fine and runs very silently. I don’t have a front derailleur so cannot comment on Claris in that regard.

It could well be that the shift lever action doesn’t suit her for whatever reason, and so upgrading some drivetrain bits might be a remedy.

The 8spd freehub will take 9 and 10spd road cassettes, so upgrading cassette, rear derailleur and shifters is the basic upgrade option, and a new front derailleur can be thrown in, too.

Beyond that, the rabbit hole is deep, and you could look at changing the freehub to fit 11spd road cassette, as well as changing the crankset or rigging up a mountain cassette with the existing freehub, for example.

I don’t recommend any of that, though, until the stock setup is sorted and shifting right, particularly as someone said if the OP is working with the same mechanic.

I’d put a small bet in on a bent derailleur hanger being culprit here.

squirtdad

It is very likely that it would end up being cheaper to get a new bike than to swap components, especially if you can get any trade in value

Dave Mayer

SIgh.. so many expensive solutions listed here. 8 speed Claris should produce reliable accurate smooth shifting for many years. It is heavier and won't last as long as the top-end gear, but it is a great bargain, and works fine.

First, check for pilot error. For both front and rear shifting, there should be little to no tension on the chain at the moment of shifting. That is, you are pedaling along applying torque to the crankset and tension on the chain, and at the moment of shifting, you ease up on the torque. You don't stop pedaling, but you reduce the RPM slightly at the instant the shift occurs. If you apply full torque during the shift transition, the shift action is slow, noisy, and chews up the drivetrain.

On the front derailleur you cannot just tap it (well, except for electronic), you need to hold the shifter lever or blade down until the chain is lifted up to the big ring. This transition takes less than a second. We've had clients come into the shop repeatedly with undiagnosable front shifting problems and it turns out they expect the shift to the big ring occurs by just lightly tapping the shifter blade.

Mechanical stuff: get a pro mechanic to run through the gears from scratch. Check the chain and the rest of the drivetrain. Change out all of the housings and cables if necessary; this is inexpensive stuff - a lot cheaper than a drivetrain swap or a new bike! All of Shimano's road stuff is good, and should shift like butter.

chaadster

In fairness, the OP requested upgrade options including increasing number of gears, so the goal was to go beyond just getting the current Claris shifting right.

And it’s not necessarily so expensive; moving up into Tiagra 4700 could probably be done for under $300. I see new 4700 derailleurs and brifters for $219 out of Portland, OR on eBay, and what’s a 10 speed cassette and chain going to cost, $40 and $25? I’m assuming the Claris crankset works fine with the Tiagra FD…

sgtmetcalfmn

Thank you for all of the Input. I appreciate all the help. I did watch several of the Park Tool videos and actually adjusted the derailleurs this weekend and it is shifting a lot better. I guess all my years as a mechanic on vehicles paid off. Now her only complaint is that she has to push very hard on the front shifter to get it to shift. Which was a concern before I worked on it also. She has weaker hands from arthritis and may not be much we can do about this. Again thank you all for the comments.

RH Clark

With her arthritis she may prefer an internal hub that has an easy twist handle. There are several to choose from.

squirtdad

Maybe look at 105 Electronic if she is going to do a lot of biking?

wheelreason

Claris and Sora do require a bit of commitment and a longer throw to make front shifts. I can see someone with small hands and arthritis having difficulty with it, but assuming it's not damaged, it can be adjusted to work properly without rubbing or clicking quite easily. Sounds like a candidate for a 1x.

MikeWMass

Or a bike with electronic shifting!

mstateglfr 

Wild to see people respond with solutions that cost money when the OP asks for ideas that cost money.

Rick_D

Swapping in a different system will be a very expensive proposition, best to find and resolve what is not working presently. Does it have a lot of miles and is component wear a potential issue? The bike's age suggests not, but accelerated wear from grimy parts can speed things. A new chain can help a lot if the old one has stretched. Chainring and cluster condition can be visually checked for wear, but can also be bent from a jammed chain and the like. That's tougher to check with the eye.

Did the bike shop check rear derailleur alignment? A bent hanger can screw up shifting and remain hidden without a proper check.

You might need a different mechanic.

Good sleuthing!