777funk

I read an old ad for Puch and one of their 531 frames weighed in at 21 lbs. After seeing this, I am curious (since I will likely never find this model) what other bikes (steel) are in that light of a weight class? I'm 5'9" which helps cut weight, since I don't need tall frames. My current road bike (a Puch made in Austria) weighs around 35 lbs with a 32" standover. I like the ride, but after riding some lighter Treks, would like to find something that feels vintage, but with a little less weight.

jdawginsc 

That will be a long, long list. The only bikes that weren’t, were largely entry level bikes, touring bikes and MTBs...

777funk

I have owned a pile of them (Puch, Raleigh, Schwinn, others) and have yet to get below 29lbs. The only road bikes I've owned lighter than that are 90s or later Treks (a 520 touring bike at 25lbs and a carbon fiber hybrid at 21lbs). The lightest vintage (I (personally) consider vintage early 80s or older) I've owned was a Raleigh Gran Prix that weighed 29lbs.

I guess I don't know what I'm looking for to find the light ones. I see lots of USA Schwinn for sale around my area. I'm guessing most or all of those won't get me there either. Maybe everything I find is bike shop entry level. Are there any tips on how to shop better?

jamesdak 

Not sure how "vintage" you are looking to go. That said pretty much any 80's on mid to high end steel road racing bike should fit that bill pretty easily. Especially as long as it has alloy wheels.

As examples.

My pretty much stock 85 Opus III with a heavier leather saddle on it is right under 22 lbs as in this pic.



This 84 Raleigh was under 24 lbs even as the mess it is below.


This 82 Krapf bike is right at 20 lbs but does have modern alloy rims on old Dura Ace hubs



This Kuwahara Count was just over 23 lbs



It really isn't hard to find something under 25 lbs is my point.

mechanicmatt

Get to know your tubing. Columbus, Reynolds, True temper, Ishwata, and Tange. Look for double butted or better. That's a pretty general answer, a good frame can be upgraded with lighter parts.

bikingshearer 

Many, perhaps most, higher-end bikes from the 1960s onward will be under 25lbs. Perhaps not by a lot - the rule of thumb I learned back when I started in the early 70s was that 24lbs was more or less the benchmark number for a "good" bike - but by some. As the 70s wore on and the 80s came in, that benchmark decreased

There are exceptions, of course. My main rider is a mid-60s Cinelli SC that weighs in at about 26lbs. Of course, it's big (64cm ctc), it's made from Columbus SP tubing (stout stuff), it's running a Campy 10sp triple drivetrain, including Ergo shifters (not exactly featherweight) and I have otherwise made little if any special effort to decrease weight - no weight-weenie-ism for this 255lb Clydesdale. But for the most part, the "good" stuff, at least from the mid-1960s on, will be under 25lbs.

777funk

Maybe I'm looking at bikes that are too old. I guess I don't know what I'm looking for! Thus the thread.

I know what I like (smooth riding steel bikes). My only minor complaint is that they're a little too heavy.

jamesdak 

As reference. all the weights below are as ready to ride with saddle, pedals, and bottle cages. Mostly 80-90's bikes with some older stuff mixed in.

Lemond Versailles 18 lbs 13 ozs
Schwinn Paramount 19 lbs
De Rosa Nuovo Classico 19 lbs 7 ozs
Lemond Tourmelet 19 lbs 14 ozs
Lemond Chamberry 19 lbs 15 ozs
Vitus Argal 19 lbs 7 ozs
Centurion Ironman Expert (89) 20 lbs 13 ozs
Schwinn Circuit 21 lbs 1 ozs Jan
De Reus 21 lbs 2 ozs
Schwinn Prologue 21 lbs 14 ozs
Fuji Team 22 lbs 10 ozs
Bridgestone Mile 112 22 lbs 14 ozs
Bob Jackson UNK 22 lbs 6 ozs
Orbea Cabestany 22 lbs 8 ozs
Bianchi Campione 22 lbs 9 ozs
Ciocc Designer 84 22 lbs 9 ozs
Centurion Ironman Expert (87) 23 lbs 10 ozs
Fuji S12-s 27 lbs 4 ozs
Peugeot U08 28 lbs 6 ozs
Trek Y-Foil 66 19 lbs 15 ozs
Ribble SL 19 lbs 13 ozs
De Rosa Neo Pro 19 lbs 13 ozs
Colnago Super 20 lbs 4 oz
Ochsner SL 20 lbs 4 oz
Serotta Nova Special 20 lbs 6 ozs
Giordana Antares 21 lbs 12 ozs
Giordana Polaris 21 lbs 6 ozs
Lecoulant 21 lbs 9 ozs
Basso Gap 22 lbs
Lemond GLX 22 lbs 1 ozs
Schwinn 684 23 lbs 0 ozs
Kona Jake The Snake 23 lbs 1 oz
Greg Lemond Ventoux 23 lbs 3 ozs
Stella SX 73 24 lbs 4 ozs
Mars Trekking 41 lbs 7 ozs
KHS ZH2B Aero Comp 20 lbs 8 ozs
Klein Quantum II 16 lbs, 13 0zs
Serotta CSI 20 lbs 13 ozs
Greg Lemond Maillot Jaune 20 lbs 15 ozs
Schwinn Prologue TT 21 lbs 8 ozs
Kuwahara Count 23 lbs 4 ozs
Giordana XL Super (2) 17 lbs 11 ozs
Bianchi Trofeo 21 lbs 8 ozs Lynskey
Peugeot Tourmalet 23 lbs 9 ozs
Klein Quantum Race 19 lbs 1 ozs

777funk

That's quite a nice list! Are all the above steel?

repechage

The way to have a lightweight way back was-
tubular tires
plastic saddle (Cinelli)
aluminum pedals- various brands.
make those changes and 10 kg was pretty easy save for the big frames.

other changes lead one on the path to weightweenie

jeirvine 

I would hazard that almost any bike made of higher-end butted steel, with aluminum rims and bars would do the trick.

jamesdak 

The majority yes. Just grabbed it from the spreadsheet of my sold rides.

Once you hit the 80's and look at steel bikes that are at least some kind of double butted steel you should get plenty of hits.

chain_whipped

Back when, any steel bike sub 20 lbs. class was the drool worthy. That said, majority of pro riders were on 22 lbs bikes. Yes, certainly there were the more premium builds for top riders use in big climb mountain stages. Those steel bikes were in the 19 lbs range.

roadcrankr

My '71 Gitane Super Corsa and '73 Raleigh Pro each weigh about 23lbs.
Yeah, swapping out their leather saddles for the light Cinelli (or modern day) saddle would cut about 1 lb each!
Combined with the pricey aluminum freewheel and light skewers, one could achieve the 10kg goal.
Back in the day, I found the aluminum pedals fairly cheap and fragile. Although I ride these bikes with clipless now!

Aardwolf

1961 Holdsworth Cyclone (22"): 10.4kg (22.9 lbs)

albrt 

Just to recap the main point, by the 1980s a lot of different manufacturers made higher end bikes that weighed less than 25 pounds if outfitted with lightweight components. They can be somewhat hard to find on an outlet like Craigslist because the sellers frequently don't give a good enough description. As mechanicmatt said above, the easiest shortcut is probably to look for a quality tubing sticker.

If the seller understands bikes well enough to give a good description, then they are probably going to price it in the fair to high range. A fair to high range price for a big name bike like a Paramount or a Cinelli is anywhere from $500 to several thousand dollars (unless you get super lucky). But you can find nice bikes from the 1980s in the $200 to $300 range. I bought a 1982 Trek 710 a few weeks ago for the asking price of $250, and it had been listed for quite a while with no inquiries.

Thalia949

This is solid advice. Other considerations are the groupset, also mentioned above were wheels, alloy rims made a big difference.

The other thing I find often is that on an older bike that has been neglected or used for utility is that some parts have been replaced with much heavier options. A change from a large comfort saddle and modern tires can cut the weight of a bike down significantly.

repechage

I rarely have weighed a bike.
I weighed my Lejeune CdM with race wheels, 250 gram Clement criteriums, pump removed in 1974, 21#. 56 cm center to top, raw plastic Cinelli saddle.
in 1975, weighed my new track bike, Cinelli steel bar and stem, light wheels, Clement #3’s, Columbus PS tubing. 18.5# plus, not quite 19#. 55 cm center to top.

the surprise earlier were my Parents Carlton Catalina’s, a bit cruder way of measure, I stood on a bathroom scale with and without my holding the bikes, the Mens 23”- 23.5#, the step through, 21” - 23#
those had Williams steel cranks, steel pedals,(unmarked but pretty nice) Dunlop Special Lightweight steel rims. Brooks saddles. Both had Reynolds 531 straight gauge tubes throughout.

abdon 

I was just looking at the Univega catalog for 1984 (looking for info on their touring bikes). On the road bikes side:

Aero 20 1/2 pounds.
Superstrada 21 pounds.
Competizione 22 pounds.
Gran Premio 23 pounds.
Gran Rally 23 pounds.
Sport Tour 24 pounds, and we are getting on the cheap side here.
Viva Sport 25 pounds.

By this point in time you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to go over 25 pounds. Even the Specialissima, a touring bike less concerned with weight, was 25 pounds.

mpetry912 

and of course the published weight was taken from the smallest size frames.

/markp

Trakhak

What's your local Craigslist location, and what size bike (i.e., frame size) are you looking for? Amazing bargains in vintage bikes have been showing up lately all over.

And people here will be happy to help you spend your money. Not quite as much fun as buying the bike ourselves, but almost.

steelbikeguy

The catalogs should be helpful too.
The '76 Raleigh catalog lists weights. I'm not sure what size frames were used when measuring weight, but I'm guessing that it was the small ones.
The catalog lists the International as being 22 1/2 pounds, but a quick measure of my 24.5" International shows 24.6 pounds.
Of course, I've swapped the original tubular tires and rims for clinchers (Mavic MA-2 rims), and some all aluminum MKS Sylvan pedals have replaced the Campy Record pedals with steel cages. Not sure if those modifications balance each other out or not, but I'm pretty sure that they didn't add 2 pounds.

My International:


The International in the catalog:


The spec page for the '76 catalog:

a higher resolution version of the spec page.

Steve in Peoria

jdawginsc 

A good rule of thumb is that if it comes with steel rims, the tubing is gas pipe (heavy high tensile steel). I assume by your height you will need a 55-56cm, or 22”.

A mid 80s Schwinn with Tenax tubing (Columbus) would be a nice introduction to lightweight tubing and should not set you back much at the moment. (Premis, Peleton and a few other I forget). From Trek, Anything with 531 or TruTemper will be there.

Might also look for early 80s Miyata, Nishiki etc...Peugeots (Vitus tubing), Gitanes...even Italians

what is your price range? And where do you live (roughly)?

52telecaster

That is a beautiful bike.

Fredo76

Excellent advice.

Lightweight steel frames were made with double-butted tubing, which is tubing that has a variation in wall thickness, thinner in the middle, and thicker at the ends, where the tubes are joined. Double-butted is lighter than single-butted, which is lighter than straight-gauge. It is a key starting point, nearly a requirement, for your goal. Light components alone won't get you there if the frame is heavy.

Light wheels and tires are the other main consideration - most racers and serious riders rode sew-up tires until the eighties, when lightweight clincher options became available.