Grail bike found!!
#51
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Great to see your progress on the assembly. I imagine you'll enjoy those first rides, and fine-tuning. So fun.
The finish is really gorgeous, and very thin and original-like. So nice.
The finish is really gorgeous, and very thin and original-like. So nice.
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Maybe it’s the size of the screen on my phone, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be looking at
Is it because there’s a scratch on the paint with rust?
Is it because there’s a scratch on the paint with rust?
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‘your fork is Later, the earlier fork image from a 1972 example shows pretty sharp points at the outer shoulders about the blades. Yours are blunt and wider, typical of an investment cast era DeRosa crown. Also in 1972, even up to 1974, there is no interruption of surface on the backside of the crown, you fork shows a upset to that surface, actually consistent with a later recessed brake attachment. I cannot tell the diameter of the back side of the crown on your fork.
nevertheless, the points of the crown are conclusive. A fork from the late 70’s at the youngest, at least five years younger than your frame. At least it is a DeRosa fork.
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I thought it was pretty obvious.
‘your fork is Later, the earlier fork image from a 1972 example shows pretty sharp points at the outer shoulders about the blades. Yours are blunt and wider, typical of an investment cast era DeRosa crown. Also in 1972, even up to 1974, there is no interruption of surface on the backside of the crown, you fork shows a upset to that surface, actually consistent with a later recessed brake attachment. I cannot tell the diameter of the back side of the crown on your fork.
nevertheless, the points of the crown are conclusive. A fork from the late 70’s at the youngest, at least five years younger than your frame. At least it is a DeRosa fork.
‘your fork is Later, the earlier fork image from a 1972 example shows pretty sharp points at the outer shoulders about the blades. Yours are blunt and wider, typical of an investment cast era DeRosa crown. Also in 1972, even up to 1974, there is no interruption of surface on the backside of the crown, you fork shows a upset to that surface, actually consistent with a later recessed brake attachment. I cannot tell the diameter of the back side of the crown on your fork.
nevertheless, the points of the crown are conclusive. A fork from the late 70’s at the youngest, at least five years younger than your frame. At least it is a DeRosa fork.
Good eye, but I think this fork appears to be original, and correct for late 1973-1974.It’s an early-type investment cast crown, the type used through 1979 or so on [edit - FORKS MATCHED with] frames that still featured pressed lugs / Georg Fischer sand cast bottom brackets.
I’d say this now points to a date 1973-1974, and may be more definitive than some other features in dating the frame.
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Robvolz,
Take a look are image. Notice the sharp ‘fangs’ on the 1968-1973 drawing…
Now, look at the slightly duller ‘fangs’ on the 1973-1976 drawing..there’s your fork.
Take a look are image. Notice the sharp ‘fangs’ on the 1968-1973 drawing…
Now, look at the slightly duller ‘fangs’ on the 1973-1976 drawing..there’s your fork.
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Robvolz,
Another image from Andrea Bonfanti’s guide - notice that year span 1969-1973 features (observed / typical): BOTH short and long-pointed lugs in use.
Note - if you have any doubts about your frame / fork being a complete and matching c. 1973 set… I would be interested in taking it off your hands.
Another image from Andrea Bonfanti’s guide - notice that year span 1969-1973 features (observed / typical): BOTH short and long-pointed lugs in use.
Note - if you have any doubts about your frame / fork being a complete and matching c. 1973 set… I would be interested in taking it off your hands.
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The other thing I was saying was about the seat stay cap.
@Robvolz's bike:
Mine (which I think is a 1973):
Andrea's 1972:
The circled heart in the 'o' position is later. Whether it's definitively later and never appeared before 1973, I couldn't say.
Maybe @corsaclassic could offer us an opinion?
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This is part of what I was saying earlier, though I was basing my comments on the heart pantograph on the fork crown.
The other thing I was saying was about the seat stay cap.
@Robvolz's bike:
Mine (which I think is a 1973):
Andrea's 1972:
The circled heart in the 'o' position is later. Whether it's definitively later and never appeared before 1973, I couldn't say.
Maybe @corsaclassic could offer us an opinion?
The other thing I was saying was about the seat stay cap.
@Robvolz's bike:
Mine (which I think is a 1973):
Andrea's 1972:
The circled heart in the 'o' position is later. Whether it's definitively later and never appeared before 1973, I couldn't say.
Maybe @corsaclassic could offer us an opinion?
One thing certain - these are gorgeous early/mid 1970s De Rosas.
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I'm not usually too interested in Italian race bikes, but if I were to ever get one, it would be a larger version of this. Absolutely beautiful!
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#63
CORSA CLASSIC
thanks Andy!!
I love your bike. If the paint wasn’t perfect, I would have dipped it and painted it orange like yours.
I have no confidence in figuring out the year of any Italian bike.
It isn’t like the calendar year turned and Framebuilders said, “toss out these bits, we’re on to these now.”
both frame and fork are stamped “30” so I know they match.
the fork crown is flat. No slope at all like the 72-73s.
Panto? Yes!
Easier to add a lil panto than recast a fork crown.
The guide Andy was referring to. I totally see what he means by the holes in the tangs and the heart panto.
This crown is missing the holes in the tangs, and the panto, but the crown is flat all the way across.
Andrea had been emailed. He confirmed 71. Says it matches his personal bike exactly.
Also, there was a lil bag of parts, a slightly chewed up patent 1971 derailleur which means absolutely certain… Nothing.
could have been what was laying around or even a replacement at some point.
here is a pic of a set of lugs from 1968 (supposedly) further adding to my confusion.
Nothing makes sense.
I love your bike. If the paint wasn’t perfect, I would have dipped it and painted it orange like yours.
I have no confidence in figuring out the year of any Italian bike.
It isn’t like the calendar year turned and Framebuilders said, “toss out these bits, we’re on to these now.”
both frame and fork are stamped “30” so I know they match.
the fork crown is flat. No slope at all like the 72-73s.
Panto? Yes!
Easier to add a lil panto than recast a fork crown.
The guide Andy was referring to. I totally see what he means by the holes in the tangs and the heart panto.
This crown is missing the holes in the tangs, and the panto, but the crown is flat all the way across.
Andrea had been emailed. He confirmed 71. Says it matches his personal bike exactly.
Also, there was a lil bag of parts, a slightly chewed up patent 1971 derailleur which means absolutely certain… Nothing.
could have been what was laying around or even a replacement at some point.
here is a pic of a set of lugs from 1968 (supposedly) further adding to my confusion.
Nothing makes sense.
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#64
CORSA CLASSIC
This is a 1973/76 frame, so most probably around 74. Repainted with good design decals (compared to what I normally see around for that set).
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#65
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Hey all.
There is a subtle stamp on the bb and the fork that reads "30" so I know its a matched set.
The PO said he had emailed you; Andrea (^) and said it was a 71. With the older BB, it made sense, bit I am not an expert on the subject and already started referring it as "early 70s" to avoid litigation.
Nice book BTW, can't wait for the CAMPY book. (y'all should buy one https://corsaclassic.com/en-us/produ...olo-collection )
Yes, those lugs came from Bradley at SF's American Cycles. He said it was a part of a salesman's sample kit. I had been in talks with Mark DiNucci about making me a DiRosa, DiNosa or DeNucci.
But, he is a lil backed up at the moment.
Basically I promised another wine and bike friend I wouldn't bother him until he gets his long awaited frame that he paid for long ago.
Andrea, how can the older style BB be explained?
There is a subtle stamp on the bb and the fork that reads "30" so I know its a matched set.
The PO said he had emailed you; Andrea (^) and said it was a 71. With the older BB, it made sense, bit I am not an expert on the subject and already started referring it as "early 70s" to avoid litigation.
Nice book BTW, can't wait for the CAMPY book. (y'all should buy one https://corsaclassic.com/en-us/produ...olo-collection )
Yes, those lugs came from Bradley at SF's American Cycles. He said it was a part of a salesman's sample kit. I had been in talks with Mark DiNucci about making me a DiRosa, DiNosa or DeNucci.
But, he is a lil backed up at the moment.
Basically I promised another wine and bike friend I wouldn't bother him until he gets his long awaited frame that he paid for long ago.
Andrea, how can the older style BB be explained?
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Last edited by Robvolz; 10-26-23 at 01:13 PM.
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There's something about this picture of fine bike parts just jumbled together in a heap that hurts to look at. I'd have at least wrapped thing up to avoid more damage than inevitable. Congrats on the DeRosa though. If there was one mainline brand I wouldn't mind having, that's it. Too tall for me though.
#67
CORSA CLASSIC
With that setstay name with heart in a circale it can't be 1971, as it was started in 1973. Same for the fork.
Strange I gave wrong year... do not recall this!
Strange I gave wrong year... do not recall this!
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I think it's a keeper. Nice score. Was it just a coincidence that the yellow pantographing on the crank matches the trim on the frame? Kismet.
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1973-1976 window does change things, I have not seen a long point lugged frame from that interval, DeRosa was not yet a systematic operation, just that crown did seem incongruous.
‘the brazed on water bottle bolts I associate with earlier frames too, but Ugo was allowed to change things up.
there are just overall fewer bikes to study from his shop.
by all appearances of individuals that visited, Ugo upgraded his processes verses the way Masi used contractors and then set up by contract a licensed California facility.
that facility never exploited the possible production brazing carousels and associated tooling. What I saw was impressive but highly labor intensive scheme.
Fischer components were solid but required lots of work to tame aesthetically.
later investment cast crowns arrived, and lugs but the market was pulling back, the market that did exist wanted the latest thing. Tighter geometry, the latest dropouts, Columbus tubing.
Columbus was available from Masi, just extra cost, an off menu option. During the Carlsbad years up to mid 1976, Columbus tubing got one a Mario brazed frame.
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Hey all.
There is a subtle stamp on the bb and the fork that reads "30" so I know its a matched set.
The PO said he had emailed you; Andrea (^) and said it was a 71. With the older BB, it made sense, bit I am not an expert on the subject and already started referring it as "early 70s" to avoid litigation.
Nice book BTW, can't wait for the COLNAGO book.
Yes, those lugs came from Bradley at SF's American Cycles. He said it was a part of a salesman's sample kit. I had been in talks with Mark DiNucci about making me a DiRosa, DiNosa or DeNucci.
But, he is a lil backed up at the moment.
Basically I promised another wine and bike friend I wouldn't bother him until he gets his long awaited frame that he paid for long ago.
Andrea, how can the older style BB be explained?
There is a subtle stamp on the bb and the fork that reads "30" so I know its a matched set.
The PO said he had emailed you; Andrea (^) and said it was a 71. With the older BB, it made sense, bit I am not an expert on the subject and already started referring it as "early 70s" to avoid litigation.
Nice book BTW, can't wait for the COLNAGO book.
Yes, those lugs came from Bradley at SF's American Cycles. He said it was a part of a salesman's sample kit. I had been in talks with Mark DiNucci about making me a DiRosa, DiNosa or DeNucci.
But, he is a lil backed up at the moment.
Basically I promised another wine and bike friend I wouldn't bother him until he gets his long awaited frame that he paid for long ago.
Andrea, how can the older style BB be explained?
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You are right.
But…
1, I have served wine at Pebble Beach.
2, My friend and neighbor is Keith Martin.
3, I've hung w Jon Shirley and his main restorer, John Bennett. (forget the cars, ask to see the art!!)
4, I have won several times, Best Lambretta for my TV200 and best Vespa for my twin GS160 Mk2 nationally.
OH Yeah, Almost forgot. Best Alfa Romeo Spider series 2 at the national conference for my "SUPER SPIDER." (one of 3 made to pass DOT homoginization)
Mainly I just build a little and ride with a big smile on my face.
For you, I will make certain there will not be a fingernail's worth of dust in my DeRosa's glovebox.
HEY: I want to thank you again for talking me through the BB build. I understand the changes had to be made in 1978, but it would have been nice if Campy had changed the numbering on their parts.
But…
1, I have served wine at Pebble Beach.
2, My friend and neighbor is Keith Martin.
3, I've hung w Jon Shirley and his main restorer, John Bennett. (forget the cars, ask to see the art!!)
4, I have won several times, Best Lambretta for my TV200 and best Vespa for my twin GS160 Mk2 nationally.
OH Yeah, Almost forgot. Best Alfa Romeo Spider series 2 at the national conference for my "SUPER SPIDER." (one of 3 made to pass DOT homoginization)
Mainly I just build a little and ride with a big smile on my face.
For you, I will make certain there will not be a fingernail's worth of dust in my DeRosa's glovebox.
HEY: I want to thank you again for talking me through the BB build. I understand the changes had to be made in 1978, but it would have been nice if Campy had changed the numbering on their parts.
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Last edited by Robvolz; 10-26-23 at 09:58 AM.
#72
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There's something about this picture of fine bike parts just jumbled together in a heap that hurts to look at. I'd have at least wrapped thing up to avoid more damage than inevitable. Congrats on the DeRosa though. If there was one mainline brand I wouldn't mind having, that's it. Too tall for me though.
and the area above his office at his work.
this area really bothered me because it was difficult enough to ladder up empty handed. Can’t imagine carrying a bike.
Drillium on a seat. That’s a new one on me.
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#73
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Nope, I quick stop at *****'s (Bike Recyclery) on the way to work and I have some perfect grey cable housing.
Edit: whoa, Z e l l a is a moderated word? Strange.
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#74
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For your "where's Waldo" moment, look at the shed spot the 3Rensho with the 3ttt cockpit. Also not his size.
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#75
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Great thread, I have learned a lot about De Rosas today
Maybe don't do yellow cables but I think yellow cloth bar tape would be nice
Maybe don't do yellow cables but I think yellow cloth bar tape would be nice
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