What is a Suntour Ultra 6?
07-31-23, 07:48 PM
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What is a Suntour Ultra 6?
Hi, What is a Suntour Ultra 6? In other words where does it fall in the line compared to Perfect, Winner, New Winner? What color do they tend to be? Thanks
07-31-23, 08:38 PM
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6-speed freewheel with the spacing of a 5-speed freewheel (i.e., it'll fit in a 120mm spaced rear triangle).
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07-31-23, 08:42 PM
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I don't think the Ultra-6 was a model itself, but as nlerner said it refers to the tighter spacing. I usually associate it with New Winner but I suppose they could use that spacing on any model.
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08-01-23, 12:16 AM
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They will fit onto some 5s hubs without any axle changes, but not on Campagnolo 5s hubs where a 1-2mm washer needs to be added to the driveside.
Some older rear derailers like Allvit or Simplex may then struggle to pull the chain onto the smallest cog.
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08-01-23, 03:59 AM
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Perfect (requires the specific Ultra body)
ProCompe (requires the specific Ultra body)
Winner (gen 1)
New Winner
Winner (gen 2)
Winner Pro
The Winner line requires a significant number of the correct spacers, shims, and even special sprockets in order to build the Ultra 6 spacing. It can be complicated and intimidating--- primarily because 5 of 6 sprockets will be correctly spaced but often the smallest one or smallest two won't cooperate. This is why I prefer the Perfect and ProCompe Ultra spaced bodies over any of the Winner models.
I'm also guessing that Suntour Alpha models (the ones with the same silver sprockets) could be configured as Ultra spaced 6-speeds as well. Regina (CX-S) and Atom (Compact) also produced narrow spaced 6-speed freewheels.
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08-01-23, 06:19 AM
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This.... just because it's kinda related, and I think it's pretty cool...
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08-01-23, 09:37 AM
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08-01-23, 10:32 AM
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Don't forget the Ultra-6 chain is needed, too.
I have an Ultra-6 set up in its own little box for when I go to the mountains. In the little box is a freewheel, chain, Deore XT rear derailleur, a rear derailleur cable and a 45T outer chain ring. It's everything you need to swap over to the wide range, low gearing for the mountains roads, all in one small box.
I believe mine is a 13-32T freewheel and I pair it with a 42/45T crank for beautiful half step gearing. It's always a double shift but getting from 42 to 45 is so easy as to be irrelevant.
For me, it was the perfect application for that extra gear - smoother transitions from 13 to 32 T in the rear.
I have an Ultra-6 set up in its own little box for when I go to the mountains. In the little box is a freewheel, chain, Deore XT rear derailleur, a rear derailleur cable and a 45T outer chain ring. It's everything you need to swap over to the wide range, low gearing for the mountains roads, all in one small box.
I believe mine is a 13-32T freewheel and I pair it with a 42/45T crank for beautiful half step gearing. It's always a double shift but getting from 42 to 45 is so easy as to be irrelevant.
For me, it was the perfect application for that extra gear - smoother transitions from 13 to 32 T in the rear.
08-01-23, 10:40 AM
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On a related note, because I so much like the friction-shifting behavior of Uniglide cogs, I have built two Ultra-6 freewheels using Dura-Ace 7s freewheels, a 13-28 and more recently a 13-26.
With the smallest, externally threaded 12t cog removed, the big gap exposing the outer ball bearings can be closed off using either a correct-size rubber O-ring or a slightly-sanded-down, threaded 600 freewheel dust cover simply pounded into the modified freewheel. Results were excellent in both cases, and the cog spacing is essentially perfectly uniform but for the slightly-wider spacing out to the now-smallest 13t cog (all Shimano 7s spacing is wider at 3.3mm between the 2nd and third-smallest cogs, and which now sits adjacent to the smallest 13t cog).
With the smallest, externally threaded 12t cog removed, the big gap exposing the outer ball bearings can be closed off using either a correct-size rubber O-ring or a slightly-sanded-down, threaded 600 freewheel dust cover simply pounded into the modified freewheel. Results were excellent in both cases, and the cog spacing is essentially perfectly uniform but for the slightly-wider spacing out to the now-smallest 13t cog (all Shimano 7s spacing is wider at 3.3mm between the 2nd and third-smallest cogs, and which now sits adjacent to the smallest 13t cog).
Last edited by dddd; 08-02-23 at 06:29 PM.
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08-01-23, 11:16 AM
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I recall having a NW UL6 13-28 BITD with a Sedisport, and a Suntour BlueLine RD, on a Trek 613. 'Course, I also recall it not being the smoothest shifting setup in the world. But I wasn't warned away from it by a fellah I knew and trusted at the time. No update available, as the bike was stolen ca. 1990.
08-01-23, 11:45 AM
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Don't forget the Ultra-6 chain is needed, too.
I have an Ultra-6 set up in its own little box for when I go to the mountains. In the little box is a freewheel, chain, Deore XT rear derailleur, a rear derailleur cable and a 45T outer chain ring. It's everything you need to swap over to the wide range, low gearing for the mountains roads, all in one small box.
I believe mine is a 13-32T freewheel and I pair it with a 42/45T crank for beautiful half step gearing. It's always a double shift but getting from 42 to 45 is so easy as to be irrelevant.
For me, it was the perfect application for that extra gear - smoother transitions from 13 to 32 T in the rear.
I have an Ultra-6 set up in its own little box for when I go to the mountains. In the little box is a freewheel, chain, Deore XT rear derailleur, a rear derailleur cable and a 45T outer chain ring. It's everything you need to swap over to the wide range, low gearing for the mountains roads, all in one small box.
I believe mine is a 13-32T freewheel and I pair it with a 42/45T crank for beautiful half step gearing. It's always a double shift but getting from 42 to 45 is so easy as to be irrelevant.
For me, it was the perfect application for that extra gear - smoother transitions from 13 to 32 T in the rear.
We think similarly regarding gearing, but I run the Peugeot a bit tighter, with 45-42 / 13-15-17-20-23-26. I have that same tooth progression on the Bianchi, which I use in a 1.5-step setup with 46-38 up front. It is also the core of my latest gearing on my mountain bike: 46-38-28 / 12-13-15-17-20-23-26-30. (I plan to swap back to a 24T granny chainring next time I service the bottom bracket. I didn't like the 24-40 upshift, but 24-38 should be better. If not, I also have a 26 I can swap in.)
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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08-01-23, 12:38 PM
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08-01-23, 01:01 PM
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On a related note, because I so much like the friction-shifting behavior or Uniglide, I have built two Ultra-6 freewheels using Dura-Ace 7s freewheels, a 13-28 and more recently a 13-26.
With the smallest, externally threaded 12t cog removed, the big gap exposing the outer ball bearings can be closed off using either a correct-size rubber O-ring or a slightly-sanded-down, threaded 600 freewheel dust cover simply pounded into the modified freewheel. Results were excellent in both cases, and the cog spacing is essentially perfectly uniform but for the slightly-wider spacing out to the now-smallest 13t cog (all Shimano 7s spacing is wider at 3.3mm between the 2nd and third-smallest cogs, and which now sits adjacent to the smallest 13t cog).
With the smallest, externally threaded 12t cog removed, the big gap exposing the outer ball bearings can be closed off using either a correct-size rubber O-ring or a slightly-sanded-down, threaded 600 freewheel dust cover simply pounded into the modified freewheel. Results were excellent in both cases, and the cog spacing is essentially perfectly uniform but for the slightly-wider spacing out to the now-smallest 13t cog (all Shimano 7s spacing is wider at 3.3mm between the 2nd and third-smallest cogs, and which now sits adjacent to the smallest 13t cog).
08-03-23, 05:55 AM
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I switched my Puch Royal X to a SunTour Ultra-6 setup in the early 80s. That required swapping out the OEM SunTour Cyclone short cage rear for a Shimano Crane rear, the new freewheel, and a new chain. The LBS at the time did NOT recommend the SunTour chain marketed at that point, but steered me over to a new Sedissport narrow chain that had just hit the market. It worked flawlessly for me.
08-03-23, 08:40 AM
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Possibly - it's been 40 years! I'll have to look at that bike when I get home, but it was out of my possession from 1987-2019, and more than a few things got changed during that time.
08-03-23, 09:16 AM
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I switched my Puch Royal X to a SunTour Ultra-6 setup in the early 80s. That required swapping out the OEM SunTour Cyclone short cage rear for a Shimano Crane rear, the new freewheel, and a new chain. The LBS at the time did NOT recommend the SunTour chain marketed at that point, but steered me over to a new Sedissport narrow chain that had just hit the market. It worked flawlessly for me.
08-03-23, 09:20 AM
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08-04-23, 10:53 AM
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(quoting the HAL 9000 computer in the movie 2001)
These things are very smooth running, have hardened cogs with a little bit of shifting assist, and just an all around great part.
I happen to have bought, long time ago, a box of cogs and bodies, with spacers, springs and parts.
one of the best vintage parts ever made
/markp
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08-06-23, 08:05 AM
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French tandem Suntour Ultra (7) troubleshooting
Hello all,
I’m writing to you here to seek help with an issue on a recently acquired French tandem with what I think is a Suntour Ultra 7-speed cassette:
The issue is that when pedalling I can feel a kind of „movement“ in the pedals.
It feels similar to a bottom bracket that needs changing however it’s independent from the pedalling / BB turning, i.e. sometimes it’s when the left pedal is in the front, sometimes when the right pedal is in the front or up or down. So I don’t think it’s the BB.
Also it does only show on some sprockets, eg there’s nothing at all when I use the smallest sprocket.
I was thinking whether it could be the chain (some stiff parts) but that looks ok. Also again - it doesn’t show at all when I use the smallest sprocket.
Does anybody have an idea what it could be or how I could proceed with the troubleshooting?
Thanks in advance for thoughts and tips.
I’m writing to you here to seek help with an issue on a recently acquired French tandem with what I think is a Suntour Ultra 7-speed cassette:
The issue is that when pedalling I can feel a kind of „movement“ in the pedals.
It feels similar to a bottom bracket that needs changing however it’s independent from the pedalling / BB turning, i.e. sometimes it’s when the left pedal is in the front, sometimes when the right pedal is in the front or up or down. So I don’t think it’s the BB.
Also it does only show on some sprockets, eg there’s nothing at all when I use the smallest sprocket.
I was thinking whether it could be the chain (some stiff parts) but that looks ok. Also again - it doesn’t show at all when I use the smallest sprocket.
Does anybody have an idea what it could be or how I could proceed with the troubleshooting?
Thanks in advance for thoughts and tips.
08-06-23, 08:52 AM
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Photos now on Youtube
I created a short video on YouTube with some photos of the bike and the parts.
Search for any of these key words:
Tandem Cattin Suzue Suntour Stronglight
I hope this will work to make it easier to see what the elements are.
Search for any of these key words:
Tandem Cattin Suzue Suntour Stronglight
I hope this will work to make it easier to see what the elements are.
08-06-23, 12:34 PM
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Photo album link assist: https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/30371551 . Youtube vid
VERY wild guess and difficult to judge by eyeballing, but the spacing of the first six cogs suggests that it might be an Ultra-7. But the spacing between the two smallest cogs seems wider than the others. It would be helpful to remove the freewheel and measure the overall distance between the smallest and largest cogs with a caliper.
The other factor is that setup with the front shifting on the pilot crank. That long drive chain is just gonna be less amenable to precise, crisp shifting. Never understood the logic behind that setup. In my mind, I'd prefer a longer cable to a longer chain.
If it's possible to mount the FD on the stoker seat tube (and of course get a longer cable), I can't think of anything that would keep you from swapping cranks and reverting to a stock length drive chain. Well actually, it's hard to tell from the photos; which BB has the eccentric?
VERY wild guess and difficult to judge by eyeballing, but the spacing of the first six cogs suggests that it might be an Ultra-7. But the spacing between the two smallest cogs seems wider than the others. It would be helpful to remove the freewheel and measure the overall distance between the smallest and largest cogs with a caliper.
The other factor is that setup with the front shifting on the pilot crank. That long drive chain is just gonna be less amenable to precise, crisp shifting. Never understood the logic behind that setup. In my mind, I'd prefer a longer cable to a longer chain.
If it's possible to mount the FD on the stoker seat tube (and of course get a longer cable), I can't think of anything that would keep you from swapping cranks and reverting to a stock length drive chain. Well actually, it's hard to tell from the photos; which BB has the eccentric?