Mistake? Pairing Deore derailer with bar-end friction shifters and 9-speed cassette
03-29-16, 08:57 PM
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Mistake? Pairing Deore derailer with bar-end friction shifters and 9-speed cassette
Today I set up a Deore derailer (M592), bar-end friction shifters and a 9-speed Shimano XT cassette (11-32). On the stand the gears shifted smoothly. Yet later when I climbed aboard the bike (a Soma Double Cross) and began shifting for real the 9-speed chain didn't always engage the sprockets; they sometimes skipped a gear during a two-mile ride.
Is solving this problem merely a matter of fine-tuning the derailer or was it a mistake in the first place to expect smooth friction shifting given 9 sprockets in the back? (An earlier 8-speed cassette paired with an Ultegra 6800 derailer worked fine, fyi.)
Is solving this problem merely a matter of fine-tuning the derailer or was it a mistake in the first place to expect smooth friction shifting given 9 sprockets in the back? (An earlier 8-speed cassette paired with an Ultegra 6800 derailer worked fine, fyi.)
03-29-16, 09:27 PM
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I know folks shifting 10s by friction so it's in the realm of possibility. The key is that you need good muscle memory to sort of duplicate the detents of an index shifter. I expect that if you give yourself some time, you'll dial in where the shift positions are the same way a violinist can hit notes perfectly despite no frets.
BTW - since this is about touch sensitivity, you need to be sure the cables are as smooth running as possible. If your shifter has retro-friction or spring counterbalance that will also help on the downshifts.
BTW - since this is about touch sensitivity, you need to be sure the cables are as smooth running as possible. If your shifter has retro-friction or spring counterbalance that will also help on the downshifts.
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03-29-16, 09:36 PM
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The bike that I ride the most is equipped with friction shifters and a 9-speed cassette. Works fine for me.
Friction shifters are so much cheaper that I felt it was worth the experimental risk. Before I set it up I worried over how fine of a touch it was going to require but it hasn't turned out to be an issue at all.
Friction shifters are so much cheaper that I felt it was worth the experimental risk. Before I set it up I worried over how fine of a touch it was going to require but it hasn't turned out to be an issue at all.
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03-29-16, 09:45 PM
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I occasionally ride 9 speed using bar end shifters in friction mode. I find that I just have to be very precise in shifting, fine-tune often, and still get chain "chatter" more than I'd like. It can be done, it's just harder than 7 speed.
03-29-16, 10:17 PM
#7
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Much has to do with the ergonomics of the shifters.
I went from 7 to 8 to 9 on my Rockhopper with the original shifters & RDER.
My shifting improved as the number of cogs increased. 7 & 8 needed a push and a bit more (2 bits more with 7). With the 9, I had a very good "hit" rate with just the "push".
When I got the 2nd big with trigger shifters, my friction skills went down the toilet. I ended up putting trigger shifters on it too.
I went from 7 to 8 to 9 on my Rockhopper with the original shifters & RDER.
My shifting improved as the number of cogs increased. 7 & 8 needed a push and a bit more (2 bits more with 7). With the 9, I had a very good "hit" rate with just the "push".
When I got the 2nd big with trigger shifters, my friction skills went down the toilet. I ended up putting trigger shifters on it too.
03-29-16, 11:01 PM
#8
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My Cross Check came with 9 speed bar end shifters (modern), which I immediately set to friction. Took me a little practice.
03-29-16, 11:08 PM
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6, 7 and 8 speeds have practically the same cog spacing and RDs have the same cable pull ratio, while 9 and 10 go narrower. So if 6 speeds work fine, 8 speeds should not be too bad. 9 and up is where it gets tricky.
03-30-16, 04:33 AM
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Today I set up a Deore derailer (M592), bar-end friction shifters and a 9-speed Shimano XT cassette (11-32). On the stand the gears shifted smoothly. Yet later when I climbed aboard the bike (a Soma Double Cross) and began shifting for real the 9-speed chain didn't always engage the sprockets; they sometimes skipped a gear during a two-mile ride.
Is solving this problem merely a matter of fine-tuning the derailer or was it a mistake in the first place to expect smooth friction shifting given 9 sprockets in the back? (An earlier 8-speed cassette paired with an Ultegra 6800 derailer worked fine, fyi.)
Is solving this problem merely a matter of fine-tuning the derailer or was it a mistake in the first place to expect smooth friction shifting given 9 sprockets in the back? (An earlier 8-speed cassette paired with an Ultegra 6800 derailer worked fine, fyi.)
03-30-16, 05:54 AM
#11
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Thanks for pointing that out. Would putting the Ultegra back on, assuming it will reach the 32t sprocket, make for better shifting with the 9?
03-30-16, 06:00 AM
#12
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Good to know. Maybe practice is all I need. Not sure what you mean by "modern" but my shifters are the Silver ones promoted on Rivendell's site.
03-30-16, 06:05 AM
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If the pull ratio is the issue then 10 speed mountain derailleur will work even better. It requires more cable pull than the 11 speed road derailleur.
03-30-16, 09:29 AM
#15
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upgrading to an indexed bar end shouldn't be too expensive, right?
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03-30-16, 11:41 AM
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Which bar end friction shifters do you have? Do they have an adjustment for tightening them in the pod? Sometimes they can be adjusted/tightened loosely enough that when you shift to the larger cogs on the cassette they want to shift back down. Only time I've had any issues with friction shifting 8 or 9 speeds it was when the shifter was too loose in the pod.
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03-31-16, 06:08 AM
#17
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Which bar end friction shifters do you have? Do they have an adjustment for tightening them in the pod? Sometimes they can be adjusted/tightened loosely enough that when you shift to the larger cogs on the cassette they want to shift back down. Only time I've had any issues with friction shifting 8 or 9 speeds it was when the shifter was too loose in the pod.
03-31-16, 06:09 AM
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I ran 9 speed cassette with 70's era SunTour barcons and a old Deer Head Deore rear derailleur. I was able to use and adapt but it's less than ideal. When I sold the bike I swapped it to 7 speed cassette. When I built a new bike up, I bought some indexed 9 speed Shimano barcons from ebay for $40 to shift a modern Deore mountain derailleur with a 9 speed cassette. Much better!
Last edited by Mr IGH; 03-31-16 at 06:13 AM.
03-31-16, 07:22 AM
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Don't complain about the weather and cower in fear. It's all good weather. Just different.
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03-31-16, 08:12 AM
#20
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I ran 9 speed cassette with 70's era SunTour barcons and a old Deer Head Deore rear derailleur. I was able to use and adapt but it's less than ideal. When I sold the bike I swapped it to 7 speed cassette. When I built a new bike up, I bought some indexed 9 speed Shimano barcons from ebay for $40 to shift a modern Deore mountain derailleur with a 9 speed cassette. Much better!
