More doping talk
#26
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That reminds me of Dave Zabriskie riding a fixed gear up a mountain with Floyd Landis for the State Bicycle video. He pretty much says you work so hard to get to that level and then find out it's not what you though it was, referring to the doping you have to do to stay with a team at the top tier.
I really hate to say this, but at this point if you're a kid coming up through the ranks you have to know the score when you're looking to make the jump up to a World Tour team. There's no way you can be that naive after spending enough time in racing.
I really hate to say this, but at this point if you're a kid coming up through the ranks you have to know the score when you're looking to make the jump up to a World Tour team. There's no way you can be that naive after spending enough time in racing.
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Brent
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With track and field, it was mostly anabolic steroids, especially for athletes in disciplines such as sprints and shotput, we are talking seventies onward. The EPO usage came along about the same time as cycling.
#31
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Exactly. Look at the performance of Chris Froome in Stage 19 of the 2018 Giro D'Italia. With 80Km remaining in the stage he went on the attack and stayed away to the finish to win the stage by almost 4 minutes. Who does that? Before the stage he was 3:22 minutes behind in the general classification, and with such an insurmountable deficit he was considered not to even podium. What changed after Stage 18? He must of had some super duper enhancement....something that made him superior to his mere mortal rivals.
#32
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Well Froome started that stage in 4th place for GC and the fifth place Pinot Thibaut was already 1:02 behind Froome. Others behind Pinot rapidly getting further behind in overall time. Yates who was number one GC finished stage 19 in 79th place 38:51 back. POZZOVIVO started the stage 3rd in GC but finished 11th and 8:29 back. Dumoulin, who might have kept with Froome waited for Pinot that had broken a spoke. So Dumoulin finished 5th and 3:23 back.
Can't exactly claim doping when there is plenty of circumstance and strategy that came into play also during the last half of the stage.
Can't exactly claim doping when there is plenty of circumstance and strategy that came into play also during the last half of the stage.
Last edited by Iride01; 04-13-20 at 02:06 PM.
#33
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Well Froome started that stage in 4th place for GC and the fifth place Pinot Thibaut was already 1:02 behind Froome. Others behind Pinot rapidly getting further behind in overall time. Yates who was number one GC finished stage 19 in 79th place 38:51 back. POZZOVIVO started the stage 3rd in GC but finished 11th and 8:29 back. Dumoulin, who might have kept with Froome waited for Pinot that had broken a spoke. So Dumoulin finished 5th and 3:23 back.
Can't exactly claim doping when there is plenty of circumstance and strategy that came into play also during the last half of the stage.
Can't exactly claim doping when there is plenty of circumstance and strategy that came into play also during the last half of the stage.
Last edited by hrdknox1; 04-14-20 at 09:45 AM.
#34
Meet me at spin class!!!!
In the original, first Tour, the riders chugged coffee. They used whatever they could, in every single race. Doping is part of the sport.
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I also find it laughable that you see articles and stories on the cycling sites that speak of this incredible new talent that's coming in a winning races at crazy young ages and the speeds are faster than ever. Then acting like it's the human genome that's evolving to make these kids faster at younger ages.
And isn't it the same in every sport? You always have a few exceptional talents in every generation. How is that evidence for doping?
And it's the same not just in sport, how many humans alive today are in the same league as Einstein / Newton / Gauss? I find it very hard to believe that we should believe exceptions must be doping, since that implies without doping all the riders would be within a few % of each other. That is absolutely not the case, in any setting.
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Are they faster than ever though? And if they are, is it just compared to his generation? If not, how much is technological progress responsible? How much is the internet responsible for hyping up such a talent?
And isn't it the same in every sport? You always have a few exceptional talents in every generation. How is that evidence for doping?
And it's the same not just in sport, how many humans alive today are in the same league as Einstein / Newton / Gauss? I find it very hard to believe that we should believe exceptions must be doping, since that implies without doping all the riders would be within a few % of each other. That is absolutely not the case, in any setting.
And isn't it the same in every sport? You always have a few exceptional talents in every generation. How is that evidence for doping?
And it's the same not just in sport, how many humans alive today are in the same league as Einstein / Newton / Gauss? I find it very hard to believe that we should believe exceptions must be doping, since that implies without doping all the riders would be within a few % of each other. That is absolutely not the case, in any setting.
This isn't to say that exceptional talents don't exist, but it would be foolish to not treat them as suspect given cycling's past and the decisive effects of performance enhancing drugs in cycling.
#38
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Eh, not true. I know someone in the pro peloton that doesn't dope and he won a stage in a GT last year. The "everybody does it" is a cop out for the less talented and driven when they get caught.
#39
Meet me at spin class!!!!
Say what you like but first of all, yes they did take trains and the like. Cheating is cheating.
2ndly, when Lance was forced to give back his awards, remember that they were not given to those who came in 2nd or 3rd. Those years were dirty.
2ndly, when Lance was forced to give back his awards, remember that they were not given to those who came in 2nd or 3rd. Those years were dirty.
#40
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I'd say that 90% number is probably about right. Maybe a bit on the low side if just considering World Tour level teams. I'd venture that every one of those teams has a program.
I've gotten to where I simply don't care about the doping drama anymore. I like racing and I'll keep watching.
These doping stories sell because people generally love drama. And the more drama that can be wrapped up around the periphery of racing, the more it keep people hooked into talking about it constantly.
I've gotten to where I simply don't care about the doping drama anymore. I like racing and I'll keep watching.
These doping stories sell because people generally love drama. And the more drama that can be wrapped up around the periphery of racing, the more it keep people hooked into talking about it constantly.
#41
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Yes, a guy in my bike club was offered a position with a pro team. They laid out what his drug regimen would be. He said "No thanks" and never looked back. He never mentioned which team. He is recently retired from a real job.
#42
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For those watching, look at USA juniors on the world stage. Then look a few years later. Called parenting.
#43
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Yes, it's totally this. I'm not saying that the peloton is clean as a whistle, but 90%? It's not the mid-2000's anymore.