Peterparis

Hi,
I decided to embark on this projet for a family bike likely from early 90's. Cool bike though not as cool as the SUper Aero published in this forum.

I am a fledgling bike mechanic. I'll try not to mess up the bike. I cannot wait to shine up those cool heavy "Aero" parts. the frame has pocs on it but I guess I'll just clean it up ans see. a darkish green sort of metallic hue. I'll use online videos for instruction. I dont care about flipping it, we will ride it, but if anyone has anidea about its value i'm curious. I have all parts except the saddle.

One thing I could not find is documentation for the Shimano 600 AX group set- or at least not this one detail: how to disassemble the crank arms. I got the crank bolt and lockring off on DS: allen key plus a small lockring which I do not have the pin spanner for so I used a nail and gently tapped it out: counter clockwise to remove.

My problem: on the Non Driveside the lockring won't budge in either direction, and I am wary to go harder on it until I am certain of the direction. The allen bolt on this side comes loose the same way as the ds. But of course it stops when it hits the said lockring. Any ideas?? Also:

• will i need a special too to service the bb?
• any other ideas/advice much appreciated.

Sorry no pics just yet. the forum wont yet allow me to post them.Thanks in advance!

Peter

Duragrouch

I don't know those parts specifically, but isn't the lockring to allow pulling the crank off without a crank tool, from the bolt head pushing on the inside of the lockring? And if so, why are you removing the lockrings?

Peterparis

I call it a lockring but technically it might have another name. It's threaded in. It def prevents the allen bolt from being removed if
i cannot get it out. So I am taking out these rings to ultimately service the BB.

By the way the lockring and allen head look just like this
ultegra and old Ultegra- they wont let me post url's either!

Bianchigirll 

Good Morning and welcome to the forums. As Duragrouch pointed out you very well have a self extractor on that crankset. While a great idea they can, just like regular dust caps, get gunned up and refuse to budge.The whole idea behind is you can install and remove the crankset with just an allen or hex wrench. I like them and use them on lots of bikes, but if you ride in a dusty dirty area or in the rain alot they can get gunky.

As the name implies this extracts the crank from the BB spindle. As you loosen the bolt it backs out into the retaining ring and pushes against that to 'pull' the crank arm off. I'd turn the NDS one back until it's snug and spray some kind of lube in there, and then try and take it off with the bolt. It will get prettty stiff and then come loose.




Here's how it is set up and works. If you already have the driveside one out, clean everything up and simply reinstall it with a touch of lube around the brass washer.


This is more or less the correct tool for removing the "cap" it is also use to hold the nut on the chainring bolts.





A Lotus Aero with a 600 AX group sounds more like early '80s to me. If you upload photos into an album we should be able to see them and usually someone will share them for you.

Hope this helps. Welcome to a fun, frustrating and addicting hobby

PS yes you will need special tools to get the BB bearings out. I generally encourage a novice mechanic to seek a bike shop's assistance to loosen the lock ring and adjustable cup. Personally I feel you your better off leaving the "fixed cup" (right side) inplace and cleaning the best you can from the other side. Then get the shop to adjust and tighten when you put it back together. No sense buying special tools you may only use once.

Peterparis

Bianchigirl,

Thanks so much! It never occurred to me that the ring would be what the bolt pushes on to self extract. Cool!
I actually have some tools where i live in europe but this is a USA job (visiting family) and I could potentially spring for the BB tools and bring them back. I have some experience tightening around bearings to get them just right, mostly hubs. I think I can handle it. Of course I wont know till I am faced with it, and the funny thing is the LBS where it was purchased by my brother still exists (Trek dealer now) and it would be fun to bring it back there for a little work 40 years later!!

This is a great forum. the one thing I didn't understand is about uploading photos into an album... I tried to upload into my post but there was a 10 post wall... is there another method?

daverup 

OP Album,
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/32722052

https://www.bikeforums.net/g/picture/33122916

Bianchigirll 

Peterparis GREAT! Glad I could help. Where are you visiting? We're everywhere, someone may eba few blocks away with the tools and willingness to help

daverup 

You already uploaded, you just can't add them to a post yet.. I linked your album.

Peterparis

Bianchigirl- wow community based tool sharing would be awesome! I'm in Huntington, Long Island, NY. Let me know if that exists. Tools would be great, but thats a big ask. I'll probably just identify what's needed and go buy at REI if they have at LBS. Seems like 20 - 30 bucks should do it. I need to get some polishing wheels and for my dad's grinder as well..
A big wrench for one side seems enough, on the other side, the tool which seems needed is something like Park Tool HCW-5..

Cheers!!

Bianchigirll 

Very cool bike

jdawginsc 

Right near where I grew up!

Duragrouch

If you self-service the bottom bracket, important, and not often known if it is your first time:
- The cup or bearing on the left (non-drive-side) of the bike is RIGHT HAND THREAD (normal; righty-tighty, lefty-loosey).
- The cup or bearing on the right (drive-side) of the bike is LEFT HAND THREAD, left rotation (anti-clockwise) tightens, right rotation (clockwise) loosens.
This helps keep the bearings tight. This assumes you have a BSA*/English BB shell standard, the most common.

There are more rare BB designs (such as "Italian") where the right cup is right hand thread, and they have a habit of coming loose.

* Birmingham Small Arms (Birmingham, UK); Guns, bicycles, motorcycles, etc.

There's a recent thread on here regarding various proper torques, including bottom brackets, let me find it... here it is, it contains a link from Park Tool, you may want to bookmark that:

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...park-tool.html

pastorbobnlnh 

Peterparis this is the first time I've seen the Lotus Aero Sport, so thank you for posting and welcome to C&V. I'm looking forward to your restoration.

I own the Aero Super Sport which is equipped with the Dura Ace AX group. If by chance you are in need of brake lever hoods, I recently purchased these reproductions from a seller and BF member who resides in Poland. He has them available in several colors.

Sold by BF member bike-vintage.eu on website www.racevelo.com

genejockey 

If you have a Dura Ace or 600 AX headset with the scalloped nuts, you can find tools that will work with them on Ebay. The originals will run you about $80, but there are much cheaper reproductions. If you buy the latter, be prepared to take a file to the edges to get them to fit smoothly.

The Dyna Drive pedals are very cool but one issue you may have is finding seals to replace the originals if they're shot. Also, they're clip-and-strap, which is fine if you can work with them. Personally, I never got comfortable with mine, so I got the adapters and run PD-7401 Dura Ace clipless pedals on my Lotus Supreme (which has the Dura Ace EX groupset, which has a lot of overlap with AX).

I thought about putting together a Dura Ace AX bike, but between having to find one of the Aero framesets, and finding all the components, I decided against.

Peterparis

Hi,
Report: Bad news!
The nds extracted fine, but the ds stripped out the CAP threads on the crank spider...

Oh, well. I guess logically, the spider is still useful, but a new technique needed to remove it to service the BB. By the way the bb seems not turning optimally, otherwise I could just leave it. I may do that in the short run. I'll drop by the lbs tomorrow to see what they suggest unless I get some other advice from here. I hope my faux pas isn't too cringe-worhty... arrrgh!!

This is a repose to all- I am being careful not to over post since there are limits!

@ Duragrouch- thanks for the BB heads up and link.
@astorbobnlnh Thanks for those (oddly medical looking) hood covers!!
@ genejockey Thanks for permission to not go" purist" on the pedals (Still I want to try em out, they are like good sculpture!!!).



Onwards!

Peter

Duragrouch

Stripped cap: This is why I use anti-seize on square tapers, however on one bike, that required my checking the crank bolts every time before riding, but that was probably because I wasn't torquing them hard enough, I just had the folding pocket style allen wrenches. No longer an issue because I run Hollowtech II now.

You might be able to salvage the crank if they make a "Helicoil" in that thread size. Helicoils save stripped threads; You drill or bore out the threads to a certain size, then retap it with a special tap, then insert the helicoil, with a special wrench that engages a crosswise end on the first thread of it and pulls inward on it to reduce it's diameter so it all screws in, then smack the wrench axially to break off the cross piece, and your done. Really smart system. The helicoil looks like a coil spring but with the raw material looking like a diamond cross-section; The outside of the diamond screws perfectly into the new tapped thread size, and the inside of the diamond is the former cap thread size. Some applications use helicoils right from the OEM manufacturer, especially with aluminum parts, because the helicoil is stainless steel, so offers a thread surface that is harder and more durable, and stronger because the aluminum threads are now at a larger diameter so more thread area. Aluminum engine heads that strip the spark plug threads, they helicoil. Looking on wiki now, they show that and other solutions:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_insert

Catnap 

A tool called a "ball joint separator" or a "ball joint puller" is typically used to remove a crank from a square-taper bottom bracket when the puller threads have stripped out.

Duragrouch

If it's the one I'm thinking of, a fork with tapered legs, it's often called a bonking stick because auto mechanics often use it to hit on whatever needs hitting. I'd be careful with that on the non-drive side, to not damage the end face of the bottom bracket shell, they might have a big slotted washer to slip in there to protect things. On the drive side, I think the BB fixed cup or cartridge end should protect the BB shell end face, but a protector washer never hurts.

https://www.southernhighrollers.com/...s_of_all_time/

genejockey 

In a nearly identical situation (but mine was the NDS crank), I used a pair of drill chuck removal wedges They're about the right size and if you hit them on one side then the other it keeps them square. *tap tap, tap tap, tap CLANG!!* as the crank comes flying off the spindle.

Duragrouch

It's been 40 years since I ran machines, but I am guessing you are talking about skinny wedges that go into a slot in the machine spindle to remove a chuck on a morse taper or similar?

I very rarely used such, more R8 and 5C collets.

Prowler 

I’ve faced this before too but I got lucky. Something about it gave me pause, probably didn’t like the feel of it. I decided to remove the extraction cap from the crank first. Nice convenience but a dangerous feature. It appears that the cranks themselves are fully threaded but those caps only engage the first few threads. MUCH weaker and they threaten to strip out those threads if the cranks are stuck on. With the cap removed, then the bolt, I could use a proper crank extractor tool, fully engaging the threads, and remove the crank. Worth the trouble.

I only have those time savers on one bike and I put those cranks on so I know they are well lubed and not seized. My other bike’s cranks are old fashion and reliable.

Pompiere

Around here, we always called it a pickle fork. I don't know the history of the term, maybe because you can use it to get yourself out of a pickle? I have used it to separate ball joints, and after witnessing the collateral damage, I am hesitant to use it on a bicycle, except as a last resort. You would be hammering the bearings against the cup, which might leave indentations in the running surface. I would rather use a gear puller. The crank might get gouged up on the outside, but the bearings will be fine.

Southern High Rollers needs to update the last tip to reflect the times. You might have a quarter, but good luck finding a phone book or a phone booth.

Peterparis

[QUOTE=With the cap removed, then the bolt, I could use a proper crank extractor tool, fully engaging the threads, and remove the crank. Worth the trouble.[/QUOTE]

Does this mean that with the bolt removed, a regular extractor tool can be used to remove the spider?

regarding the feeling you had, I should have had it too- there was just too much force going into the allen key with no result... live and learn.. sigh..

Cheers!

Peterparis

The post I wish I had found earlier...

seems to suggest I can change the bolt type on this crankset? or in anycase not use the self extracing "mode" it was orignally designed for. After, I can glue the stripped cap back in place for looks...

@ Duragrouch, the helicoil idea as i understand it would perhaps require more material than is present on the Spider in the area where the tap would widen the hole???

Cheers!!

Duragrouch

Very smart, it hadn't occurred to me, you are absolutely right on. It also means, if the cap was thin enough, there might be enough threads left to use a standard crank tool.