seypat

At least they're not invading C & V......yet.

3alarmer 

ofajen

Ok, so at this point I’m more of a runner than even a retrogrouch cyclist on a cheap steel single speed, but even I really enjoyed this interview with a very knowledgeable person who repairs a lot of carbon fiber frames each year. Lots of insights on the tech, the history, and issues to consider.


Otto

Atlas Shrugged

With 40 argumentative and disruptive posts over just two days if anyone is having a Shining moment you should perhaps look in the mirror.

3alarmer 

...I kinda knew you were on the OCD spectrum, but you made a numerical list ? I am impressed.

daviddavieboy

Why does this post make me self conscious about wanting a Pinarello Dogma now. I am even cautious about saying what it is made of /jk

PeteHski

C&V is a place where we can pretend that everything was much better BITD without having to worry about learning new things. Our vintage bikes are the GOAT. We can literally pretend it is still 1985 in that little bubble. Nobody is going to invade.

The problem is if we venture back out into 2024 with the attitude that everything is dire in the present day and everyone is stupid. Suddenly we are old and nobody seems to agree with our opinions about bikes and pretty much anything else. We have lost touch with the present at that point and as I grow older I try hard to avoid that fate. I learn new things, I listen to younger people and show them some respect. I try not to become too cynical. I know some people much older than me who do this too and they seem to thrive much better than their more cynical peers.

seypat

The real problem here is some of the "newer is always better" is becoming aggressive and trying to snuff out any discussion that might be about old gear. Of course you guys see it the other way around. That's what 3A and some of the others are noting. This thread is about comparisons between old and new. But now, someone can start a simple thread in General with a subject like "what's the best 8 speed cassette to get" or "I need a new set of rim brake pads" and you guys swoop in to tell the person what a fool they are for keeping the old stuff and not upgrading. It doesn't matter how many times the person says his/her current equip is good enough. Again the newer side thinks it's the opposite with the "old timers" invading the threads, but I see a lot more of it the other way around. "It works good enough for my riding needs" is not an acceptable answer for you guys. You'll fight the fight no matter the subject as long as it's old vs new. Again, you'll see it as the other way around, but it's not that way in General.

PeteHski

I can’t speak for others, but I certainly don’t do any of that. I just point out when people are talking complete nonsense about newer stuff. Like for example some guy in an article saying that choosing a carbon bike is a “mistake”. I’m old enough to have started riding when 5-speed cassettes were cutting edge. I’ve seen and experienced first hand every major development since then and it has been nearly all positive.

smd4

Defensive much?

seypat

You must have forgotten that discussion we had about triples and modern spaced cassettes for 120-130 spaced frames right before Shimano introduced their CUES? system. You should go back and reread that thread. I can’t remember what the name of the thread was though, too bad.

PeteHski

Why would I want to read about triples again? If you do find it then be sure to quote anything that I wrote suggesting that triples are not adequate for your personal riding needs.

PeteHski

Trolling much?

seypat

That the point. You have no interest in triples, but you had to enter the thread and talk about how much better 1x or 2x was and how people shouldn't be riding triples.(In a thread about triples, no less) In the process, you told me how idiotic it was to even suggest that the component companies should make modern spaced systems for the people out there that have 120-130 frames for whatever reason.

Koyote

Please show examples.

seypat

I just showed you one with the discussion between Peter and I. I'll have to dig up that thread and some others. It will take some time because I'm on the way to work now.

Koyote

I politely disagree: you have not shown us an example.

I'm not saying that I don't believe your assertion; rather, I just won't consider it until I see evidence (rather than hearsay).

PeteHski

I don't think I would have worded it anything like that. I might have suggested that it is not commercially viable to develop triples at this point. Especially not to pander to those who don't tend to even buy new bikes! You are just making this stuff up to support your silly rant.

Meanwhile there are plenty of old duffers stating that 1x is idiotic. Or 2x12 or whatever other modern gear, like carbon frames, tubeless tyres, disc brakes, etc, etc. It wouldn't take much effort to dig up examples of that.

PeteHski

Actually, one thing I do recall (I could be wrong) about that thread was your personal issue with long throw Shimano brifters. I actually agree with that point and might have suggested how good electronic shifters are in that regard. But no way did I tell you to ditch your 3x system in favour of anything new. I don't care what you ride, but will defend my own choices of gear. Especially when some clowns suggest it's all just marketing bs (not you btw, I can't remember if you are in that little clique or not)

elcruxio

I had to go and check and the word "obsolete" was thrown around a lot by more than one poster.

I found some of the statements somewhat on the strong side (triples belong in the dustbin of history, dt shifters are obsolete etc).

The thing is, especially in touring triples are still the only way to get wide enough range for loaded riding. Low range or high range aren't the issue but combining both and it's triple or nothing.

But with modern components and the absolute manure field of varying cable pull ratios, in order to make a triple work you might need to resort to a front friction shifter. If I wanted grx brakes and rear cluster for my tourer my options would be
A) mismatched brake levers
B) front friction shifter
C) a mtb double chainring, double shifter and a cable pull converter from shimano road to shimano mtb.

Sometimes there reasons beside vintage fanaticism..

PeteHski

Well it's what I would call a niche market. Is that fair?

elcruxio

Well technically touring bikes aren't a niche market in the EU, but admittedly european touring bikes aren't drop bar bikes so there's less issues with component compatibility.

Perhaps not a fair comparison, but I still posit niche doesn't equal obsolete.

that being said, it'd be real cool, if there were say, electronic shifters that you could program to an extent so you could easily mix and match different types of cranksets. Eg. use a mtb double with a road e-shifter. I'm not hopeful triples and e-shifters are ever going to be a thing...

Trakhak

That's a terrific idea. First time I've seen anyone make that suggestion. Instead of having to fuss with cable tension, you'd adjust the travel of the front derailleur in (sub-)millimeter increments in software in a GUI.

Or simply select "Learn" among the programming choices in the on-bike software and then press the shifter button while riding until the derailleur completes the shift. After a few repetitions, the software will have zeroed in on the optimal travel distance for each cassette sprocket choice.

RH Clark

I don't mind anyone paying for and enjoying the newest tech. What I object to is the attitude that anyone is somehow ill equipped without it. My opinion is that "obsolete" will more likely apply to anything with E in it over time than anything mechanical simply because the E part will have stopped functioning long ago. I seriously doubt any of the electronic derailers will still be operational in 20 years, and my fear of them is that they won't last and function perfectly for even 5. If I could spend a couple thousand every couple years for replacement parts as easily as I can spend a couple hundred, I would own some of the newest tech. More power to you if you can.

Atlas Shrugged

Have no fear, 9100 series Di2 has been running smoothly for over seven years and that the 9000 series has been reliable for 12 years. This kind of track record is indeed reassuring for users, indicating that the technology has proven to be durable and dependable over an extended period.

Electronic shifting systems, like Shimano's Di2, have received positive feedback for their precision, responsiveness, and overall performance. As with any technology, occasional issues may arise, but it seems that the 9100 and 9000 series have demonstrated a high level of reliability.