UBUvelo

thanks again for all the considerations and suggestions! quite helpful.

after a discussion with my wife (who is still not happy i lost money on a bent fork from a MTB crash awhile back...), it looks like the ALLEZ is out of the price range unless i can find it at a clearance sale price (such as these

https://incycle.com/product/09-specia...ct-48653-1.htm

and even better, well not really, only 58cm available
https://bicyclehabitat.com/product/sp...ct-48653-1.htm

... and then the best not-deal for me at $677...it's 56cm!
https://www.bikeparts.com/search_resu...?id=BPCK100006 ...that one's in colorado and of course, these never ship)

so, looks like the DEFY 3 will pretty much be it...the main critique i've read is of the seat...maybe the 'weight'...but what about the shifting...again, not racing, just riding and riding all possible road terrains at neither breakneck nor lolly-gag speeds

and aside from the greatest info--test ride the bikes--i think i'll contriubute to my local economy and try to work out something at the LBS.

agarose2000

Giant Defy3 is a rockin' bike. The frame is every bit is as good as top-flight racing bikes, and even looks it. (Looks Madone-like to me.) The weak part is the component spec, 2200/Sora, but mine shifts flawlessly and I can't really criticize it at all apart from the thumb button shifter (which I'm ok with.)

Should be on sale at LBSs nowadays - mine was $675 on sale. Add pedals & shoes, and you can ride or race with anybody without compromise, including on hawtness. It's not as blingy as a cervelo, but I'm really impressed with how great this bike is despite it's "intro-level" status. (I'm as fast on the Giant as I am in the non-aerobar position on my Cervelo P2C Dura-Ace.)

UBUvelo

that's even better! yeah, i know, the Sora, but it will work for now...seems like a bike that can be upgraded with confidence due to the frame.

now i just called the LBS closest to me (1/2 mile at most?) and they actually have one in stock my size at $750....

i think it's a win/win in that i have the place of purchase SO close...but regarding future servicing and building up rapport, how should i 'bargain' with them...they said the 2010s would be in soon. are they worried about it sitting or are they sure it'll go at the going 'sale' price if i pass it by?

UBUvelo

yep, called all around and nothing less than $750...how'd you pull that off? or was that simply what they marked it down to...?

acaurora

I got my '10 Allez Sport couple months ago, and while I have seen that Felts can be had with better components for the same price, I liked the Specialized look and how it rode (and I didn't know about Felts when I bought mine). One word of caution though if you look to plan to upgrade is that it is a 9 speed cassette, which means for Shimano you can only go to Tiagra for the brifters to get the double paddle brifters (instead of the thumb shifters on the Soras). If you want 105s/Ultegras/DA/etc you will need to change to a 10 speed. At least that's what I found out when I set out to upgrade mine.

Still is a kickass bike and I still LOVE mine after 1K miles

UBUvelo

i'd really love to get the allez, but unless i can find one better priced...and i think the DEFY will serve my current purposes better.

now to just figure out how to bargain with the store about the price....they have one Medium frame left....another in Philly has a few left.....time to act

AMFJ

I have nothing to compare it to, because it was my first road bike, but I bought a Defy 3 a few months ago. I have riden it almost daily since, and absolutely love it. So while I have nothing to compare it to, I can say that it has operated flawlessly and I've had zero problems with it. My rides are between 25 and 65 miles.

idoru2005

Not entirely true! You can find 105 Brifters triple/9sp on ebay. For example:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Shimano-105...d=p3286.c0.m14

peddlinski

I'm 5'8" and I got a Defy 3(first bike) about a month and a half ago. It's a medium and fits great. I've put 650 miles on it so far. Everything works great. You cant go wrong.

agarose2000

I've got to admit - I literally walked in to a LBS in super-pricey Palo Alto (Northern California) expecting to get charged up the wahzoo on prices (because that is one of the most expensive places to live in the US), and I was surprised to see all their Giant Defys on sale, with most sizes available. I actually expected that their sale wouldn't be a great deal, but it seems that it wasn't bad at the time. I didn't haggle at all - just paid what they had asked for the bike, which was $675. (I did know however that this was a good deal for a solid bike.)

I'd still be happy with this bike at $750 though - it's 100% legit. But I also agree with above that if you have the urge to upgrade components, the 2200/Sora is not directly compatible with 105/ultegra/DA parts, and that may be a deal-breaker for some. (Not me - I don't plan on upgrading that Sora.)

I'm also finding I like the triple as well, as I ride mostly mountain roads. Ironically, most of my time on my Cervelo was spent climbing in the 23 ring, even on roads as steep as 20% (I actually live adjacent to an 18-19% incline that's over half a mile long) so the triple is more than welcome.

Fobdot

I'm 5'9 I got the defy 2 M/L size. I like it

UBUvelo

well, i'm about to find out how MUCH i like it or love it over the long haul...pretty cool, i just brought my jeep back home and about to walk back to the LBS to pick up the last Defy 3 in stock...nice to be that close.

it'll be a nice walk to the store (about 3.5 blocks)...it'll be a nicer ride back

thanks all for the time and comments.

PaulRivers

I like having a shop close by, but the full retail price (which to be honest, it is not uncommon for a shop to charge) of a 2010 Specialized Allez is $880. I don't know if other people simply didn't look up the specs, but for the $130 price difference I know I would definitely go with the Sora/Tiagra mix on the Allez as a far better long term solution than the Shimano 2200/Sora mix on the Giant.

You seem focused on the idea of getting a "good frame" then upgrading components in the future, but in the modern road bike world that's kind of gone out of fashion because of changes in components and frames. I don't know how it is in the mountain bike world, but in the road bike world there is a certain point (about Tiagra) where upgrading components gets you little, if any, value. A lot of people cannot tell the difference between well adjusted Tiagra and well adjust Dura-Ace. Most people agree that it's next to impossible to tell the difference (just by riding it) between 105 and Dura-Ace. I personally own a bike with Dura-Ace, and another bike with the same specs as the Specialized Allez you mentioned (Sora/Tiagra) and their shifting is *very* similar. The main difference is that the Dura-Ace "feels" smoother - I don't notice any difference in the amount of time it takes to shift though. So what I'm saying is that unless they've worn out (and even then...) with the exception of Sora shifters (because of that thumb shifter thing) it's a lot of money with very little realized benefit to upgrade components.

I don't have personal experience with it, but I strongly suspect Shimano 2200 is below that point, though.

In fact, if you're buying brand new components, it's often *more* expensive to replace each component individually than it is to simply sell your old bike and buy a new one with the more expensive components installed. Let me give you a specific example. The shifters are probably the single-most expensive component on the bike. I checked this summer - the retail price of a pair of Tiagra brifters is $250. The next level up Allez is $1300 ($450 difference). Just buying brand new shifters (and you haven't payed to install them yet) brings you within $200 of simply buying the next bike up outright.

Obviously, if you buy parts used and can install it yourself, it's going to be less money. It's still going to be expensive, though.

On the other hand, a lot of people (though certainly not everyone) feel that going to a well designed full carbon frame makes a very noticeable difference in ride quality vs an aluminum (or even steel) one. They can really do some great vibration dampening stuff with carbon fiber (you gotta buy one designed for it, though, I've also ridden at least one really jumpy and stuff full carbon frame I really didn't like). I have both, and I know for sure that *I* can tell the difference after a long ride, without a doubt. However, a new nice carbon frame is way out of your price range - they're $2,000 retail at the low end. A friend of mine found one for $1600 (a Specialized Roubaix) on clearance last week and bought it.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not like the old days where you could buy a low end bike that came with the same frame as the high end bike then upgrade the components as you went along. Some of it is better, more expensive frames, and some of it is that components are simply better and give little benefit (sooner) than used to on the upgrade chain.

If you're really ok with Shimano 2200, I just noticed Specialized sells a version of their Allez with 2200 parts for the same price as the Giant ($740) -
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...enuItemId=9256

If you're not racing, want to save some money, but want to get something that's going to last, have you considered a Specialized Sequoia? It's a more "endurance" geometry than the Allez, which means (for Specialized, they don't make any truly relaxed bikes) that the steering is a little less twitchy (I own one - I like it because I can actually look around at the scenery rather than paying constant attention to tracking a straight line, like I have to do on my Tarmac, but I've never felt like it's not responsive enough) and it doesn't accelerate quite as fast (instead it maintains speed easier). I mention it because you might be able to find a better deal on one - for 2010 Specialized came out with a newer model to replace (an aluminum version of their Roubaix) so since the entire line is going away, bike shops are more motivated to get rid of them. Here's a link to a bike shop by me - $780:
https://www.eriksbikeshop.com/ride/pr...539B1FNG0V9NF9

I personally was able to track down a 2 years old model (a couple of months ago) for $600, which was (obviously) a smokin deal.