justaguy168 

This post goaded me to sell a Zeus on CL for less than I thought it was worth: I did have the bicycle appraised in the "What's it Worth" forum for much more and many kind compliments were paid. It then languished in the "For Sale" forum for years.

So I'm trying to understand what do "lots of people like" around here. What kind of person is a bicycle collector? What motivates him or her? What do they do with their C/V bicycles ? Do they ride them? Do they strip them and part out? Do they restore them? Once they are restored do they flip / sell them? Are C/V collectors buried astride their bicycle? (See the Billy Standley story.) Do they toss them in a damp basement to collect dust, rust, and mold? Do they display them in a hermetically sealed glass cabinet filled with argon inert gas and lined with purple velvet? Are C/V collectors like Jay Leno with a hangar full of history and a staff to maintain them? Or are C/V collectors ascetics huddled over their Park repair stand in the Montana wilderness subsisting on White Lightning bearing grease and WD-40 fumes?

I've tried to do my homework. I looked at posters' signature files and searched for posts with "how many bicycles." It seems that the 25th to 75th percentile is 3 to 6 bicycles. I searched for posts with "storage" in the title. Some stow their bicycles in a dusty barn. Some hoist from the ceiling with pulleys. Some attach to the wall with DIY or purchased racks. I did not see any display cases with purple velvet.

While this post may sound flippant, I seriously do want to understand the C/V bicycle market. Feel free to point me to other threads that may answer this question. My apologies if I have duplicated a thread.

abdon 

If you took 100 vintage bikes enthusiasts and ran them through a meat grinder you would end up with an homogeneous mass you could make broad assertions about. Short of that everybody has their own list of things they are willing to overpay for and the stuff they would not take for free.

I have overpaid and underpaid for stuff, I have overpriced and underpriced stuff I have have sold. There is no magical formula. Heck just because in the morning you paid $x for item y, it doesn't mean you could find a second one for as little or sell it for as much that same evening. That's the nature of this beast.

SurferRosa

First, we all think that of our bikes.

I read that thread (below) and agree it could get $800 on eBay. Did you try there?

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...970s-zeus.html

I noticed no interest in your for sale thread.

To answer your question about interest, I would have loved to fully rebuild that Zeus, spending way too much time in every detail, riding it a bit, and selling it way too cheaply on my local craigs.

justaguy168 

No, I did not try to sell it on eBay. I was too frightened by the scammers. While eBay has provided more seller resources, it is biased towards the buyer. I got a buyer on CL within 24 hours. It is reassuring that someone else out there would restore a Zeus just for the love of it.

1989Pre 

I am and idealist and a romanticist, and have no interest in "the market" or what others think. I like what I like. Chances are, that's not going to be on most people's "top ten" list. For example, a Zeus sounds good to me. Why did you sell it?

abdon 

Well right there is part of your answer; some stuff sell faster and or for more in one place versus another. Many times I have picked something up on Craigslist and sold it for more on Facebook marketplace.

Plus there is stuff that if obscure it can take a looooong time to sell and lowering the price doesn't change the fact much. Unless you pretty much give it away. I think the last thing I sold like that was a vintage car spotlight. After listing it for two months somebody finally came along that was tickled pink at finding it for what I was asking.

justaguy168 

The main reason I sold it is because I'm getting older, my life is in a different place, and I'm just not riding it. I also live in a 780 sqft Manhattan apartment with my wife. She has been rather patient with my sentimentality. But that patience is wearing thin.

I had the occasion to visit an elderly person also in a small 1BR apt in Manhattan chock full of the clutter of a lifetime which included two very dusty original Klein aluminum bicycles in excellent condition. They obviously belonged to him and his late wife. Obviously the most poignant detail about the scene was his illness. But the two Kleins hit me hard. It was then that I knew I had to adjust what I kept to reflect where I was in my life.

I know you were expecting a typical social media concise response. But that's the real answer.

Spaghetti Legs 

As far as the market goes, the short and unhelpful answer is a bike is worth as much as one person out there will pay for it. For some brands or models, there will be several people willing to pay a good price, but for most, like Zeus, there just aren’t that many and they are getting fewer as time goes on.

Most of us here collect to some extent and I’d say, especially the ones I know personally, ride most, if not all, of their bikes. Most of us I’d say also, sell bikes to fund purchase of other bikes and bike stuff. I’ve long said my bikes and bike parts are worth more to me than what some other person would pay. As far as the glass case display type thing, there really aren’t that many bikes worthy of that treatment; usually related to a rider, race, or some historical event associated with it.

icemilkcoffee 

The truth is that the C&V market is pretty small. Even if you priced your bike right, it could still take 2 months to sell. That is perfectly and totally normal. Parts sometimes take even longer. I think it makes more sense to sell parts on Ebay,. This is totally different from, say the market for a kid's mountain bike. Those should sell in one weekend if you priced it right.

smd4

I’m an outlier. I own one bike, with no desire to own more. As the years pass, I may have to get something easier riding, like a gravel bike, but that’s down the road. And I wouldn’t call a purchase like that “collecting.”

I spend my money on tools to maintain my bike, which I enjoy as much as riding, and upgrades to the bike.

leftthread

A lot of times the most fun riding has been on low-end beaters I've overhauled.

bikingshearer 

I am in your 25th to 75the percentile range (5 bikes, only three rideable at the moment but that is being remedied). All of my frames are ones I lusted after as a teen in the mid- to late-1970s but could not afford. Two of my frames are from the mid-1960s, one from 1967, one from 1978 and one from about 1982, give or take. For me, the ultimate sweet spot is old lugged steel with Campy 10sp triple drivetrains - the components still look right on an old frame, but I can run the gears I need to get a my rather large carcass up a significant hill, however slowly. I have two bikes like that. (I have had several rear triangles spread and four of the five repainted.) I've also had four of the five repainted.) One is my BART/town bike with upright bars and Shimano 9sp triple. Two of my bikes are Eroica compliant and one of them is Cino compliant (maybe both), but not even remotely period correct. I need tunperiod-correct triples and gearing to get up the hills around here and I like brakes that actually, you know, stop

I love staring at my bikes but they are all riders - I very much want to play with my toys. I was thrilled a few Eroica CA's ago to see both a Confente and a cromovelatto Willler Tristina out on the (dirt) road, being used as they were intended to be used and not being treated as museum pieces. Don't get me wrong, I love looking a bike porn; the bikes at Eroica and at Cino are major draws and the bikes at Bob Freeman's gathering a few weeks ago had a stunning amount of really cool stuff.

When I can no longer ride, I expect to hang at least one of my steeds on a wall so I can look at it and dream. But I have not, and likely will not ever, buy a bike or component with the idea of hanging it on a wall or displaying it on a shelf. If I buy it, I intend to use, although I sometimes (read: too often) buy stuff, not get around to using it for the intended purpose and then forget what the intended purpose was. From reading this forum, it appears that I am not the only C&Ver who suffers from this ailment.

All of this probably more than you wanted to know, but hey, you asked.

Chuck M 

I'm relatively new here and I've seen the "What is a a classic and vintage bike" question brought up a fair bit. I think old bicycles are such a broad subject that it will just come down to what is in the eye of the beholder. We probably can't look at old bike collecting like old car collecting. While old cars are just as broad of category, there are sites and forums for Corvettes, or old Mustangs, or exotic sports cars. Here, De Rosas, Merckxs, Schwinns and Huffys get represented in the same subforum. I just like old bikes and enjoy fixing them and riding them. As long as I'm happy with it I don't dwell on the economics of it.

Bikes are like mules. If the owners could buy them for what they are worth and sell them for what they think they are worth, they would just buy more.

I pitch my tent in that same campground. I have some bikes that while they are not on anyone's grail list, they bring me happiness and I'd like to see them last another 40 plus years in the same condition and originality they are in now.

And that seems to be often overlooked in the appraisals here. I don't chime in often in those threads, but the long and the short of it many times all one can offer is what are asks in their area or what they would be willing to pay. And those numbers will vary greatly by area or individual.

Nemosengineer 

C&V is not and never will be a money making proposition. It's done for love of the machine, the joy of building, of seeing your project come to completion, and riding off into the sunrise on it. It's very powerful.

: Mike

Lascauxcaveman 

Yes.

Wildwood 

Old & retired. 40 years as an adult cyclist, not one without at least ~1500 miles. I've had what I consider 2 'vintage collections' (for lack of a more concise term) and a few purchased new = Campa Ergo10 bikes. The first vintage group was about 8 nice but mostly mid-level road bikes. Sold them all but one, survived the health scare, decided life needed spice. Reassembled a group of about 18 European roadies, just to 'ride them all'. 531 straight gauge, 531 butted, 531 CS, 531 SL, 531 metric, Columbus SL, SLX, Ishiwata, Vitus, Falck. Back to 8 vintage, as it stands today.

'59 Rickert, '71 Holdsworth Pro (project), '78 Batavus Competition, '80 Holdsworth Special, '81 AD Olympian, '82 Mondia Special, '86 DeRosa Pro, '87 Bianchi Vittoria.

Just made an offer on a '71 Peugeot PX10 - simply because I'm lacking in my French experiences.

Seeking a steel Look frameset in 60cm to wear a Mavic drivetrain.
And a racy European to wear some black Weinmann Delta brakes.

Who are We?
Well,...... for me,
I want to ride them all.
Mostly '70s thru about '87.
Lugs are pretty
Tubulars are easy
Cotton or ribbon wraps my bars
32 is a low enough spoke count
Shifting on the DT is not a problem
Patina can be enhancing (at the right price)
Clear your handlebars and your mind will follow
Spin circles, use th drops
Rubber-side Down = World’s best cycling advice
The right tool? - around here someplace!

This thread needs pics.


Rickert = Oldest frameset, AD Olympian always got a lot of nimble miles

DeRosa Pro SLX and Batavus from Ishi022 with Campa9 Ergo triple

Holdsworths, branded as Irish Hardings. One = sweet. Two is twice as nice. Friends can call me Mr. Wildwood Harding.

Bianchi Formula One tubing

rustystrings61 

I rode a bunch c.1974-1984, then left cycling for a while. I returned to the fold in '97 and have been gathering and assembling bikes since then. The lone survivor of my buying new custom framesets with throwback tendencies is a 2002 Mercian Vincitore custom road fixed-gear - and I deliberately commuted on it for several years so that I wouldn't have a hanger queen like my Rivendell became. I no longer really bother with catalog correct anymore. The only bike that stays ferociously "period" is my long-lost and finally recovered prodigal, the 1976 Puch Royal X my father bought for me in 1978 that I foolishly sold, regretted, tried to buy back and learned it had been stolen in 1987. That one, when I unexpectly bought it back (scars on the headbadge ID'ed it for me) I put back largely in the configuration it had when I rode it back when, and that is the closest I have come to a restoration in decades. I flirted (briefly) with having the former The Spoke/Harvest/Mercian team issue bike from 1982 that I got as a frame and fork for $50 put back to rights with its team livery restored and Campagnolo parts, but in the end it works just fine with a mix of different Shimaon bits and its well-earned battle scars. Besides, it's only original once, or so they say.

Otherwise, they're fair game for modification so long as nothing is permanently damaged. I've learned through the Clunker Challenge 100 series that you can have an awesome time on a bike picked up cheap that looks like it will fall apart. A $35 Facebook Marketplace find '88 Centurion LeMans gave me a new appreciation of Japanese bikes of the '80s. A thoroughly Frankenbiked '86 Cannondale ST400 that I traded trashpicked mountain bikes for is back on the workstand right now awaiting a better replacement fork and better parts from the stash to become a carefree rambling, S24O kind of camping bike. The '92 Trek 820 I was given by the manager of the LBS is now a 2-speed non-derailleur beater that will come out to go on family beach trips. The '73 Raleigh Competition now has a flip-flop setup with two chainrings, a Surly Dingle fixed cog and a White Industries Dos Eno freewheel yielding fixed and free options for pavement, gravel and gentle singletrack. The grand master of my current questionable beaters is a '71 Gitane Tour de France I assembled to be a family vacation bike - it, somehow, has THE smoothest, most natural and intuitive handling and the slickest running drivetrain of anything I think I've ever owned.

I suppose I could go all historically period with the late '70s-early '80s Lighthouse - but, nah. Once the bottom bracket and chain I have ordered arrive it'll be a mix of '90s stuff including RX-100 brakes, shifters and rear derailleur, a SunTour Cyclone II front, mismatched Shimano Exage and RX-100 hubs, SR bars and stem from the parts bins, and the Brooks B17 that once graced the Rivendell I spent way too much for back when I was single.

It's funny. I've owned lots of cool vintage bikes with all the right kinds of original parts. There were multiple Peugeot PX-10s, a Raleigh International, assorted Gitanes, early Treks, some Bianchis, an Allegro ... but the only one I regret selling, and it's been 20 years and I have its replacement but I still regret selling it, was a c.1971 Raleigh Competition with Nervex lugs and a box crown that I picked up off a trash heap, covered in multiple layers of Krylon and housepaint. It was like an erector set (Meccano for our U.K. cousins) for grown-ups, and I had a blast building it up with parts bin gleanings as a single-speed, a 10-speed on 27s, a 17-speed with 700C wheels, and eventually the ideal fixed-gear commuter with fenders and roughly 30 mm tires. I foolishly sold it in a moment of trimming down personal possessions.

I've sold several bikes in the last few years - some beaters for college students, a couple of late 80s Japanese sporty bikes to older guys like me - but the best one so far was yesterday. I had listed an '88 Specialized Sirrus that I really liked but had no room for, and a younger gentleman and his charming wife drove into town to buy it. He had priced current entry level bikes and recoiled from their prices. He had also done some research and decided he likes "rideable art." So I gave him a deal and am about to send him some links to this and other C&V communities, because this stuff doesn't need to die out with us.

Anyway - here's the core of the herd this morning.

AdventureManCO 

Wow! You are an outlier 'round these parts! But it is a mentality I admire more than my own, which is 'see a bike, get a bike'

I'm enjoying it too much right now to really change, but I know at some point it will. My hope is in that time, find a favorite or two that stand out amongst all the rest, then just donate the rest. The dream would be to find someone just as interested, but younger, who could enjoy them for more years.

To the OP, the vintage bike market (to me) is in a state of flux right now (and maybe it always is to a certain degree?) - with many of the people who have an interest in the 50-80s road bikes (usually due to growing up with them) aging out of their riding years and wishing to either downsize or sell, combined with the hard push to 'go e-bike' for many, there is nowhere for many of these older bikes to go. People just aren't interested, and those that are, are part of a very small group. Also, the mechanical skillset to rebuild a bicycle, while not complicated, hasn't really been taught on a grand scale institutionally for a long time.

Many vintage bicycles I'm seeing are shockingly underpriced compared to what they sold for new, especially when adjusted for inflation. I know some will say that the top of the market will always hold their value, but I do think that is true only to a certain degree. In the last Copake auctions, I saw some bikes which some would consider as 'holy grails' (i.e. a Rene Herse) go for like $1200-$1500, which is eye-opening to me.

Supply and demand. I do think the value a lot of vintage bicycles offer for quality, riding enjoyment, and looks, far surpass the asking prices of many. Sign me up for a $1200 Herse any day.

smd4

I'm very fortunate in that I actually own my "grail" bike. Anything else would be lesser, in my opinion, so there's no real need to seek anything else out.

Pompiere

I got into C&V bikes by accident. First, we bought a house where the prior owner had left a couple bike frames and parts behind. I was able to assemble one complete bike out of the mess and sell it. Then, while searching the internet for more information, I discovered my old Miyata was somewhat of a classic. I started paying attention at garage sales and flea markets and found I could buy some really nice old bikes for just a little money. As the collection grew, I got more selective. I have plenty of room, but it does take a lot of time to keep a fleet of bikes ready to ride. I am retired, so I can justify having a hobby that keeps me busy. I have ten road bikes at the moment, plus several other mountain and miscellaneous bikes. I only buy bikes that I find interesting or are a step up from what I have. I wasn't looking to get another bike, but when I found this FW Evans while on vacation, I had to squeeze it in.


This FW Evans is my long term project.

mpetry912 

I really enjoyed this thread. Some nice bikes on view. I agree, classic bikes are a pretty niche corner of the bike world. However the C&V world is where the real "brotherhood of the wheel" hangs out, mostly because we've been on the bike a long time and (more importantly) there's a lot less one upsmanship about who has the latest all black carbon electronically shifted wonder bike. Ever been on an En Gamba ride ?

This weekend I rode my 74 (italian) Masi that I've owned siince 1978, and that bike runs smooth as a jet and never fails to bring a smile. Many happy memories. I paid $200 bucks for that bike, and have certainly got my money's worth out of it.

I think that's another important insite about the CV world, is that you can buy a heck of a lot of bike for 500 bucks, a lot more enjoyment than you'd likely get from a similarly priced new bike from a big box store.

but I don't think it's a place where you can make money by trading or flipping. There are a few exceptions, but you have to buy the right thing and hold.it for years. I have had 2 vintage bikes do very well for me, I rode them for years, maintained them to perfection and then sold them on to happy new owners.

/markp

SirMike1983 

I've been fixing old bikes for about 27 years now. I do it because I like fixing up old things and I like riding old bikes. I keep doing it because I tolerate selling bikes for 50% the value of what I put into them. Live and learn.

SurferRosa

What kinda brake levers you sportin' there, seadog?

John E

Wow -- Harding hoarding. Charlie's shop on Westwood Bl. was one of my go-to sources of bike parts. One of my friends rides the Harding she bought at Charlie's shop from her future/present husband, then a C. Hardings For Bikes employee, in the late 1970s. How's that for a "how we met" story?

John E

Capo hoarding, anyone?



Repainted Cap Sieger frame, serial number very close to that of my other Sieger, so who was I to say no to it?