rgvg

This is on my 1986 Schwinn Voyageur. I've seen the threads where you pop off the seal, clean, and grease and I have done two of those (Specialized and Suntour). The problem I see with this one is I might not be able to get the seal back on if I remove it. The ones I've done before had a piece that screws on after the seal, so it keeps the seal in place (see last picture). I have had one other hub that did not have that piece and I couldn't get the seal back on.

Thanks!





This is the piece that the Specialized and Suntour hubs had that this one doesn't.

leftthread

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Vintage_Cyclist

https://www.bikeforums.net/10004116-post11.html

unworthy1

^That's the ticket!
IF you really need to re-pack the sealed cartridge bearings, follow MiamiJim's wiki...it works.
And once you get the hang of it easier, quicker and less chance of screw-ups than pressing out old carts and pressing in new (tho sometimes that works fine, too. Sometimes)
If your problem is re-installing the rubber-coated spring steel seals then could be you've crimped it/them during removal...which is one of the possible screw-ups with Jim's method.
But then you go to plan B which is the pressing out/in. And try not to damage the hub shell (cause plan C is a new hub!)

rgvg

Thank you for your replies. I appreciate it. Even the one that seems to have mysteriously disappeared. I do appreciate the effort that went into it, pictures and all. It also helped to know the seal was supposed to just pop back into place, which wasn't really mentioned explicitly in Miamijim's excellent post.

I guess I must have been doing it wrong. Regretfully I don't recall where I put the one that I screwed up, though I do remember I kinked the seal alright. So maybe that was the problem.

When I get a chance I'll give it a go and see what happens.

unworthy1

The first time(s) I tried without the very important detail miamijim emphasized (always remove seals starting from the inner (axle) edge) I certainly crimped them and then they will NOT pop back into place and work again. You also want to start "popping" the seal back on with the outer edge first and THEN the axle edge last, coaxing gently. If you have to force it you risk crimping and ruining it. Couple fine points:

Jim uses a large "Olfa" type utility knife blade, which looked like way too big a blade to me, and still does...but what's important is to have a blade that's thin, which these snap-off blades are compared with say a Stanley knife or matte knife blade.

And I prefer one that's not brand new and razor sharp cause I think that helps to prevent accidentally nicking the very thin seal edge. I had good luck with a "larger" Xacto blade (I like the #24 or #19 versus the very popular go-to #11 which is too pointy for this job IMO I think I may have used the #15 with good results too), and helps to practice on a cart bearlng you are going to toss out (there's definitely a 'feel' for this you need practice to develop.

Last thot: if you have some "toss out" bearings and you get those seals off with success, you can use them to replace the crimped seals and save your "good" cleaned and re-greased bearings!

rgvg

I think I lied. I found the hub I thought I'd borked and it turns out the part I'd removed and crimped was an outer seal. The specialized hub had a stainless steel cap, the Suntour one had that funny little hat. This one was just rubber. Under that rubber one is the actual bearing, which I didn't actually take apart. The Sansin hub from my Voyageur has none of those things and is just the bearing exposed.




I haven't picked up an X-acto knife yet so I haven't tried anything.

I was hoping I could get around the whole problem by just using the set of wheels I had from my 89 Voyageur, so I checked the tension and trued the rear wheel. The Maillard hubs on there aren't cartidge type hubs, so not as nice. I opened it up to clean and grease and somehow I managed to snap the axle. Also the cone looks pitted.



I had a couple of axles I thought I could use but the cone wouldn't thread on, binding after a few turns.

So I guess i'll have to go back to my original plan, which is to try to service the Sansin hub, and get new spokes and try to rebuild the wheel.

To complicate things a little bit I think I also have a 40 hole 700c rim. But if I were to do that I might have to change the brakes, and I don't know if I want to complicate my life any further.

rgvg

Just in case anybody tries it.... the axle on a Suzue hub may not come out. I don't have a BFH but I did try a big wrench and all it does is move the bearing out of the hub shell. Not what I wanted. I guess these vintage cartridge hubs are not all the same. If on the other hand you have bearing press it might be okay.

I've only seen three makes, Specialized, Suntour, and Suzue. If I recall correctly the Specialized and Suntour ones do have axles that will come out. The Suzue one I have, nope.

Well, there's also the Sansin ones on my Voyageur that is the heart of my problem. At least one side of the front hub did come apart, though I haven't tried tapping it out the other end just yet.

rgvg

I finally popped off the seal on one end. There's not an overflowing amount of grease, and it doesn't look or feel like it's dried out. But this is from 1986 so it must be 37 years old. Should I bother trying to clean and regrease? I guess the bike didn't get around much.

Road Fan

My view of old metal is that it does not get moldy or degrade as do food, rubber, unfinished woods or other materials. The problem is micro-cracks. These are always possible and are deadly because they are cracks and stresses are not transmitted across the crack. So the beautiful, clean stress flow and distribution patterns carefully engineered by Specialized and Sanshin, are totally broken, and so may the bearing! Car hot-rodders and rebuilders used to (still do?) use a process called Magnaflux to see if the crankshaft or connecting rods in an engine to be rebuilt contained cracks, and hence could not be re-used in a rebuild or a performance upgrade.

But modular bearings are cheap, aluminum hubs can be heated and the steel bearings popped out, and new bearings pressed in, perhaps with the help of lubrication or heat. Perhaps the bearings can be pressed out without de-spoking the wheel and rebuilding, but if a rebuild is needed, it will be the most expensive part of the job.

So I would say: Plan A is to remove the seals, clean, and regrease. Plan B is close behind and more of a renewal, to press out the bearings at room temperature, buy new matching parts, and press 'em in, all the way in. Plan C: if you are a very handy wheel builder (I like to but am not highly practiced and fast), de-lace the wheel, heat the hub in an oven (your family must permit this), replace the old bearings and relace/lace/true the wheel back together. Plan D is, replace the whole wheel.

Regarding the broken axle on the Maillard hub: It may be possible to buy (still) complete axle replacement kits. The French threaded stuff would be no longer needed so you could get one which is BSC-threaded, and you can buy one with a much stronger CrMo axle which will be far harder to break with non-gorilla hands! I have done this with some old hubs which had decent bearing cup faces, and my friend now has wheels which work for his extremely sentimental old roadie. I used balls which are softer than stainless, so perhaps the balls will wear out faster than the original bearing cups.