Didn't we used to call this a "Sports Tourer"?
05-04-18, 04:28 PM
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Didn't we used to call this a "Sports Tourer"?
Maybe, under a new name, it sells better...
05-04-18, 04:31 PM
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Adventure bike, gravel bike, touring bike, fitness bike..... whatever....
Just ride the darned thing!!!! The bike doesn't know what it is, only that it wants to be used.
Just ride the darned thing!!!! The bike doesn't know what it is, only that it wants to be used.
05-04-18, 08:19 PM
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My guess is that 'sports' is seen as low end since foe decades every brand's 'sport' model was on the entry side of things.
And 'touring' isnt really seen as an appealing offering for roadies wanting to do fast day rides.
So then 'sport touring' was out. Endurance was in since it still exudes quality, speed, and legit road riding.
And 'touring' isnt really seen as an appealing offering for roadies wanting to do fast day rides.
So then 'sport touring' was out. Endurance was in since it still exudes quality, speed, and legit road riding.
05-04-18, 08:41 PM
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Sport touring, now there is a contradiction in terms. My definition it’s a road bike with fender/rack eyelets.
05-04-18, 10:35 PM
#6
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Yeah, same difference, new words.
"Endurance bike" implies that you are a hard man, a tough dude, someone that can take punishment and keep pounding.
A "sports tourer" implies that you are out to look at the scenery on a leisurely Sunday afternoon while wearing a cardigan.
So, if you are insecure about your manliness, get an endurance bike.
Apologies to the forum members who aren't men, but that's how I see it. It's a macho thing and a marketing term that caters to it.
"Endurance bike" implies that you are a hard man, a tough dude, someone that can take punishment and keep pounding.
A "sports tourer" implies that you are out to look at the scenery on a leisurely Sunday afternoon while wearing a cardigan.
So, if you are insecure about your manliness, get an endurance bike.
Apologies to the forum members who aren't men, but that's how I see it. It's a macho thing and a marketing term that caters to it.
05-05-18, 12:30 AM
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I thought endurance bike meant the bike has to endure stuff so I don't have to.
That's why I'm gradually modifying my Univega Via Carisma toward that kind of bike. Something responsive and comfortable to get beat up on my behalf while I'm enjoying the ride.
That's why I'm gradually modifying my Univega Via Carisma toward that kind of bike. Something responsive and comfortable to get beat up on my behalf while I'm enjoying the ride.
05-05-18, 01:01 AM
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Today's "Endurance" models seem to be copied from the concept of the Merckx "Century" model, the idea being to slightly increase the ratio of the frame's stack to it's reach.
Still a high-performance road bike in every way, even the steering geometry was the same on the Century model as on their Corsa Extra, same toptube length even, but the seattube angle is set back one degree or so which shortens the reach dimension by about one centimeter. It is absolutely perfect for a rider like me with proportionally longer leg length, as either a race bike or century ride.
My modern Colnago CX-Zero Endurance model has identical angles and toptube length to my 2004 Orbea Orca, a pro-class roadracing bike at the time. But the Colnago's headtube is centimeters taller, so the toptube slopes a lot more.
Somehow "Sports Tourer" to me implies the possibility of adding a rear rack, so longer chainstay length was part of that scenario. It's a different meaning than Endurance or Century to my way of thinking.
Longer rides correlate to lower pedaling intensity or output, which in turn means less torque being applied to the cranks. Since that torque is part of what holds a rider's upper body up against gravity, longer rides should have the rider's upper body mass positioned/balanced a little bit less forward of the bottom bracket, so is a feature of both sports tourers and endurance bikes.
As has been argued before, one can simply use a taller stem on a roadrace bike and adjust the saddle rearward slightly to make it more endurance-friendly, though a taller or shorter stem will tend to make the steering more flighty.
Still a high-performance road bike in every way, even the steering geometry was the same on the Century model as on their Corsa Extra, same toptube length even, but the seattube angle is set back one degree or so which shortens the reach dimension by about one centimeter. It is absolutely perfect for a rider like me with proportionally longer leg length, as either a race bike or century ride.
My modern Colnago CX-Zero Endurance model has identical angles and toptube length to my 2004 Orbea Orca, a pro-class roadracing bike at the time. But the Colnago's headtube is centimeters taller, so the toptube slopes a lot more.
Somehow "Sports Tourer" to me implies the possibility of adding a rear rack, so longer chainstay length was part of that scenario. It's a different meaning than Endurance or Century to my way of thinking.
Longer rides correlate to lower pedaling intensity or output, which in turn means less torque being applied to the cranks. Since that torque is part of what holds a rider's upper body up against gravity, longer rides should have the rider's upper body mass positioned/balanced a little bit less forward of the bottom bracket, so is a feature of both sports tourers and endurance bikes.
As has been argued before, one can simply use a taller stem on a roadrace bike and adjust the saddle rearward slightly to make it more endurance-friendly, though a taller or shorter stem will tend to make the steering more flighty.
Last edited by dddd; 05-06-18 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Edited 1st line typo, increase was decrease, lol.
05-05-18, 01:09 AM
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05-05-18, 01:15 AM
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05-05-18, 01:30 AM
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05-05-18, 01:32 AM
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There was someone on Bike Forums years ago, I think on the cyclocross forum, who asked what a gravel bike was. Upon being told that it was like a road bike that you could rid on any kind of road surface he responded something along the lines of, "We used to call that a 'bike.',
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05-05-18, 05:34 AM
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What a concept. Day Sports Endurance Touring Racer. Great for any kind of riding.
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05-05-18, 05:46 AM
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Whatever they want to call it, I'm happy for it. For a while, if you went into a bike shop to buy a road bike, they assumed you wanted to go racing and tried to sell you a short wheelbase, steep angle race bike. When I was 25, I might have been okay with that. Now, in my fifties, I still like to ride briskly, but I'm not competing with anybody, so I'll sacrifice a couple MPH for all day comfort. I bought a Jamis Quest in 2011 and have been very happy with it. It serves as the template for setting up my other bikes, including my old "sports touring" bikes, which now have taller stems to match the bar height of the Jamis.
05-05-18, 05:48 AM
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You've crossed my path then and seen me out for a ride? That sounds like a great way to spin your Sunday, but then, I'm not really concerned about being the manliest of the men (I mean, we are talking about a group of males, who, for the most part, shave their legs).
05-05-18, 06:19 AM
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My 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo, with its long wheelbase, 72 degree angles, and slender stays fits the description nicely, as does my 1996 (first year in the U.S.) Audi A4 Quattro.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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Last edited by John E; 05-05-18 at 06:23 AM.
05-05-18, 06:49 AM
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Today's "Endurance" models seem to be copied from the concept of the Merckx "Century" model, the idea being to slightly decrease the ratio of the frame's stack to it's reach.
Still a high-performance road bike in every way, even the steering geometry was the same on the Century model as on their Corsa Extra, same toptube length even, but the seattube angle is set back one degree or so which shortens the reach dimension by about one centimeter. It is absolutely perfect for a rider like me with proportionally longer leg length, as either a race bike or century ride.
My modern Colnago CX-Zero Endurance model has identical angles and toptube length to my 2004 Orbea Orca, a pro-class roadracing bike at the time. But the Colnago's headtube is centimeters taller, so the toptube slopes a lot more.
Somehow "Sports Tourer" to me implies the possibility of adding a rear rack, so longer chainstay length was part of that scenario. It's a different meaning than Endurance or Century to my way of thinking.
Longer rides correlate to lower pedaling intensity or output, which in turn means less torque being applied to the cranks. Since that torque is part of what holds a rider's upper body up against gravity, longer rides should have the rider's upper body mass positioned/balanced a little bit less forward of the bottom bracket, so is a feature of both sports tourers and endurance bikes.
As has been argued before, one can simply use a taller stem on a roadrace bike and adjust the saddle rearward slightly to make it more endurance-friendly, though a taller or shorter stem will tend to make the steering more flighty.
Still a high-performance road bike in every way, even the steering geometry was the same on the Century model as on their Corsa Extra, same toptube length even, but the seattube angle is set back one degree or so which shortens the reach dimension by about one centimeter. It is absolutely perfect for a rider like me with proportionally longer leg length, as either a race bike or century ride.
My modern Colnago CX-Zero Endurance model has identical angles and toptube length to my 2004 Orbea Orca, a pro-class roadracing bike at the time. But the Colnago's headtube is centimeters taller, so the toptube slopes a lot more.
Somehow "Sports Tourer" to me implies the possibility of adding a rear rack, so longer chainstay length was part of that scenario. It's a different meaning than Endurance or Century to my way of thinking.
Longer rides correlate to lower pedaling intensity or output, which in turn means less torque being applied to the cranks. Since that torque is part of what holds a rider's upper body up against gravity, longer rides should have the rider's upper body mass positioned/balanced a little bit less forward of the bottom bracket, so is a feature of both sports tourers and endurance bikes.
As has been argued before, one can simply use a taller stem on a roadrace bike and adjust the saddle rearward slightly to make it more endurance-friendly, though a taller or shorter stem will tend to make the steering more flighty.
In my stable of bikes- it's mostly tourers, with a couple of old ATBs and one "race" bike. But, oddly enough, my most aggressively angled bike is my Trek 400 Elance sport touring bike.. I agree with @dddd that the slightly longer chainstay/ rear end for a rack thing is one of the hallmarks of a sport touring bike- but I don't know if, in these ultra segmented, compartmentalized marketing domains, if a rack is reserved for "TOURING" and "COMMUTER" marketed models.
I love my Trek 400 Elance- it's a 531 framed bike with CrMo stays and fork, I've "upgraded" a lot of the parts to 1st and 2nd tier stuff, just because I think this bike deserves it.
1986 Trek 400 Elance by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
1986 Trek 400 Elance by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
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05-05-18, 07:22 AM
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“New, different and better” drives pretty much every market, especially sports equipment. If we’re not out having epic adventures and taking selfies to make our friends feel like they are missing out, we’re not doing it properly, right?
05-05-18, 07:33 AM
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Lets face it, Trek way back 80's with their stellar 7xx plush station wagon long wheelbase were sloooow sellers. That's why it was dropped, the 520 got the shorter wheelbase treatment and became their premier seller in that category. Still today in the states one rarely sees cycle camping tourist. For the volume production makers, an all rounder road bike with sporting handling makes sense. Do the commute thing, screw a rack on take on light camping. So big deal, a change of terminology has always been the pitch / marketing 101. Flower power, gnarly rider.
Last edited by crank_addict; 05-05-18 at 07:43 AM.
05-05-18, 07:59 AM
#22
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What a lot of people don't realize is that the terminology shifted over the years. Back in the 70s, the term touring bike didn't necessarily mean a camping bike, though it could. A tourer was a bike you took out for enjoyment and to see the sights. A racing bike by contrast was meant solely to go as fast as possible.
I think all my bikes are sports tourers, regardless of the original intent.
I think all my bikes are sports tourers, regardless of the original intent.
Last edited by Salamandrine; 05-05-18 at 08:46 AM.
05-05-18, 08:37 AM
#24
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The uncharge for a premium tube set was more than what a similarly designed TruTemper or Special Series framed bike would be- and in the MTB first era, the prestige of having a Reynolds or Columbus tubed touring bike wasn't worth the cost. The 520 kind of settled on 45cm- which is pretty standard. Only the 720 and one year of the 620 had the 47cm chainstays.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
05-05-18, 08:54 AM
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That's the best simplification I've read.
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