dbakl

Maybe, but my most favorite frame ever (probably just because I put so many miles on it) was an all chrome 62 Carlton in Reynolds 531 and Nervex with stamped dropouts. Also the lightest and most comfortable riding frame I've ever had... I have a similar Carlton now, about a 64.

BTW, I wouldn't repaint that Temple; may be the only one around. Clean and preserve as best you can. Build it up with the original parts and ride and love it!

busboy1303

Thanks for all the info and positive comments. I've had a look around the frame today, I can just make out the words " Guaranteed Tru Wel steel tubing" on the transfer on the seat post. Stamped underneath the frame is "D 1580". The drop outs definately aren't cast, and I'll try to include some more detailed photos when I get the chance. It has a cotter pin type crank with a grease nipple present at the bottom of the seat tube and has brazed on cable guides and pump holding brackets.
I originally thought if things worked out that I might get it re-painted but now agree with most of you, patina rules and every mark or scratch tells a story. I just need to find a way of carefully preserving that patina.
I guess the general consensus is that it dates from the 50s. I didn't realise it was that old. What's the score with a bike of this vintage. Is it considered ok to use this sort of thing on a regular basis? And does everything I bolt onto it have to be period correct?

prettyshady

please post a photo of it all, like this we will know what you need to build it up

Oldpeddaller

Hi busboy, the grease nipple on the bottom bracket is another good clue that indicates pre 1960's (although a few early 60's bikes still had them) and cottered crank on a British bike of this era doesn't mean low quality either; for ages people here rejected the idea of alloy cranks fearing "they won't be strong enough, will wear out too quickly, they cost too much" and so on. It's your bike to do what you want with. However you asked for a view and for what it's worth, I'd recommend against re-painting. It's only original once and you can't recreate that. Clean it carefully and wax with soft polish to protect it, would be my advice. In the early 1950's complete bicycles were subject to Purchase Tax in the UK but frames and bicycle parts were not. Cyclists would mostly buy a new frame, transfer all the better parts from their old bike, buy the remaining bits and build their own bikes that way. Money was desperately short in the ten to fifteen years after the War. This means that there is no 'factory specification' for you to replicate, any parts you like from around that era will be fine. My 1953 Claud Butler is fairly unique in having been bought as a complete bike from the Claud Butler shop in SE London and still has nearly all of the original parts. Replacements have been handlebar tape and brake levers, tyres and brake blocks - also I had to replace two spokes which broke. I bought it from the original owner, who at 72 can't ride it any more. It has a Williams cottered chainset, double sided fixed wheel hub, GB brakes & bars, Brooks B17 and Dover No.4 mudguards. As a 17 year old apprentice, Roy had saved all his money for this bike and had it built to the spec he could afford, gears were too expensive. Hope this helps!

due ruote 

And even into the '70s some of the Carlton built Raleighs used 531 with stamped dropouts. Maybe they weren't at the level of a Bob Jackson or Holdsworth, but they were quality frames with great ride quality.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Ride it. Its just as rideable as any other vintage bike...don't be put off by the age.

The period correctness is up to you....personally I'd look to get it on the road and then work on gradually bringing it up to Period Correctness (or not).
I'm working on a '39 Dawes right now and I've been considering the same dilemma...some correct parts are just too hard to find or too expensive to get. Oftentimes "close-enough" is the best you can really hope for unless you've got really deep pockets. Also depending on how functional you want this bike to be for your purposes you may end up straying away from the initial configuration.

toytech

I will vouch for this, my 73 Raleigh Grand Sport has all 531 tubes and fork and rides great! even with the dreaded stamped dropouts

lord_athlon

Put what ever you want on it. It's your bike. Period correct is cool, but upgrades happen over the course of 50 years.

mkeller234

+1, mine too. BUT, the grand sport went in the opposite direction probably for cost reasons. The older models did have Zeus forged dropouts and an integrated hanger then later went to stamped dropouts. It doesn't make any difference to the bike and is actually a plus if you want to use an internal hub or SS.

OP, that is a really great frame and the heritage only adds to it. Good luck with your project and please keep us posted.

Sixty Fiver

I have a 1973 Gran Sport and it is one incredibly nice bicycle despite it's lowly stamped dropouts (which are hella strong)... I also ride a custom Ron Cooper and do not think I sacrifice much anything when I ride the Gran Sport except a bunch of gears as it is set up as a fixed gear.

DiabloScott

Looks really neat and unique. Take lots of photos before you repaint (I think it deserves it), in case you want to duplicate the decals.

I don't think I've ever seen two pump pegs on one bike before.

And that looks like 4130 on the label.

AdrianFly

Throw on a buncha Nashbar parts and go pub hopping one after another till your pizz drunk while fondling the barmaids in each and every establishment. Go home and prank call Grant Peterson

That's how I'd honor MY grandfather.

I'm an American but ancestry kinda dates back to.. you know... Ireland. Ireland or Cornwall.

dbakl

Grant PetersEn

I've seen his business card.

Scooper

Here's an interesting British website with some history of Accles & Pollock from 1898-1989. TI was the parent of Accles & Pollock, and apparently, Tru-Wel was one of Accles & Pollock's brands.

https://blackcountryhistory.org/colle...d/GB146_BS-AP/

Twenty-one boxes of materials, most of which is promotional and sales material, including catalogues, sales literature/advertisements, photographs and artwork, is available for research at Sandwell Community History & Archives Service, located in the town of Smethwick, West Midlands, U.K.

I'd love to browse through those 21 boxes!

rhm

+1

A lot of what you need, to build this bike, is probably in that box. If there's a seat post, check to see if it fits; if it does, then it may well have come from this bike, and if so, other parts may also have come from it.

But let's not speculate. Show us the suitcase! Then stand back and watch us argue about how you should build it. Should be a good time.

Scooper

Searching on Google, I found this 1962 employment advertisement for Tube Investments Ltd. Under the "Steel Tube Division" there were eleven companies, including Accles & Pollock Ltd, Oldbury; Chesterfield Tube Co. Ltd, Chesterfield; Reynolds Tube Co. Ltd, Birmingham; Talbot Stead Ltd; Walsall & Dudley; Tubes Ltd, Birmingham & Desford; Tube Products Ltd, Oldbury & Wednesfield.

It appears from other information I found that Tru-Wel was a brand of Tubes Ltd.

It's pretty neat to see the organization of TI back then.

Lenton58 

Welcome to CV. It's a treat to see this vintage frame. I'm thinking that it can be made into a marvelous nice clubman that you'll want to ride a lot. + its your bike — your legacy, but my 2 cents ... what I would do with the finish:

After thorough cleaning, I've found that you take very fine emery paper — like #2000 — and with a lot of water rub an old finish down just a smidgeon. Very lightly on the decals — barely breaking the surface at all. This cleans a bit more than the washing and provides a tooth for a clear coat. You can rattle-can a good clear coat with patience. Mask off all the tubes but the one you select to spray with clear coat. Let it dry thoroughly. Then select another tube and again mask off the others or at least adjacent tubes. This prevents inevitable over-spray. When all is completed let the frame cure out for at least a week.

Any rust around lugs and stuff has to come out/off. You can make tiny tools out of thin dowel and either glue or stable emery on the end. Or you can use a small brush and some navel jelly or other effective product that will not attact the paint of the decals. The longer and more carefully you work, the better the result. The clear coat will make all the patina sort of come together, and it will have a sheen that will make the remaining color brilliant. It will also seal out oxidation.

It would be good for a frame maker to check out the frame, and he can chase any rust out of the the BB threads and maybe reface the BB shell.

Some others may disagree, but this would be my approach. I am looking forward to following your progress. BTW — my Dad road a Bates too ... during WW II. He always recalled it with reverence. (There are two Bates — don't know which one).

sekaijin

^ that sounds like it could work wonders but if I did that, I would screw it up and have regrets for sure ... I would just leave it closer to as-is, clean and wax it.

+1 want to see the suitcase

Lenton58 

I admit that it takes a nerve.

Grand Bois

I definitely disagree that sandpaper and rattle can clearcoat is a good way to preserve patina!

dbakl

Gently with some rubbing compound on a wet cloth, especially around the decals and a couple of coats of paste wax should be plenty!

realestvin7

Great find. In for pics of treasure trove suitcase.

gnome

+1.

zandoval 

SUITCASE!!!

(sorry for yelling but I just love old parts...)

busboy1303

Thank you all for your views and info. O.K. you'll see the suitcase when I've made time to do it justice.