Duragrouch

(above tattoos) That's free advertising!

CrimsonEclipse

If I was in the market for another folder, I'd definitely take that offer.

(wish I'd known about the Bull before I bought a used dahon)

tds101 

The Bull IS a solid, highly customizable bike. Highly recommended for some gravel riding. I'm still waiting for a few $$$ from a settlement to do a few mods. That Lotus would make a sweet commuter IMO. I'd just prefer an IGH. I'm so in love with IGH bikes.

CrimsonEclipse

ANY frame creaking?
no reason... just asking for a frien- WHY WON'T MY DAHON STOP CREAKING!?!?!?!

tds101 

Umm... Let your "friend" know that my fat azz (245lbs) doesn't experience creaking. My Dahons ALWAYS did, EXCEPT for the Dahon Mariner i7 w/the deltec cable. As noted in another thread, the funky lockjaw hinge was a bit finicky, but it was a solid, EXPENSIVE ride. Also, the bottom bracket seems to be proprietary, so the person that bought it from me couldn't swap it out for a hollowtech style bottom bracket/crankset combo.

Dahon has lost its appeal to me, and there's SO MANY other reputable brands out there that are a better purchase option. Origami, Zizzo, a plethora of brands that aren't even available here in North America, but are well worth purchasing via eBay, etc. I totally despise the fact that I can't easily order an Fnhon bike. As far as Dahon is concerned, it's lost its luster for me personally. Even Tern is not worth it, unless you're planning on going electric. Their folding electric bikes are quite nice.

Reddleman

Can’t you get AliExpress in the USA? Even with shipping costs factored, in there’s some well priced 16 inch wheeled bi-folds like this this or some fancy Java carbon folds like this appearibf when I search it from my corner of the world. ( There’s also plenty of Bromptonesque tri-folds out there, too many to bother to link with.)

tds101 

I wanted a Java Fit, but it wasn't available when I was in the market. I also had a problem with AliExpress in the past, when I ordered 2 folding bike handleposts, and the seller shorted me for 1. When I contacted AliExpress they said the burden of proof was on me, so I lost money from a dishonest seller. I'll never make a purchase from them again... I ended up with my Oyama folder, but that Java Fit was what I really wanted.

Duragrouch

First, check the telescoping joint of the handlebar stem, if so equipped (I have the earlier fixed steel stem). If the noise is from there, you might calm it with some lube, but the problem is that grease or anti-seize is so darned messy, so perhaps just a quick spritz of silicone spray there may work, and it not supporting so much weight that the lube would cause slippage, I think.

Next, possible squeak from the seatpost/bushing/seat-tube interface. I put some anti-seize between the bushing and seat tube (mostly for anti-corrosion there), but NOT on the seatpost/bushing interface, as that needs to hold tighter, and would be more messy.

A touch of lube at the frame folding joint pin, never hurts. Same for the stem folding hinge pin. I use my chain lube, 90 weight gear lube, but something thinner should work fine too.

Could also be the handlebar clamp, but you need to be careful with any lube there, especially with offset loads like I have, bar ends, and aero bars.

Duragrouch

Non-standard BB size/threads on a Dahon? Hard to believe, but who knows with a newer model. My Speed is 68mm x english threading, says 1.37x24TPI, hollowtech II and external bearings fit great (in fact that thread spec is what's printed on the periphery of the bearings). Maybe your friend meant the BB cartridge has some special splines that they don't have a splined gizmo that fits it?

Duragrouch

I agree, the Bull looks good. Reconsidering IGH... I think if one lasted carefree for the life of the wheels, that would be good for me. But I live in a rainy region, and a respected LBS that specializes in IGHs says that if ridden in rain, they need an annual teardown and lube with marine wheel bearing grease. At $100+ for that service, annually, with my wheel life, that would be at least an added $1000 (+ $100 tax) in the life of the bike, or even more with less yearly mileage. Now, a hub with superior seals, and a way to drain the gear lube and refill without a whole teardown, and that working for the wheel bearings too or them as easy to service as normal hub bearings, that would also work. I wonder if the newer design IGH hubs seal better? I should ask that shop.

CrimsonEclipse

Main folding point, either contact patch and/or hinge pin.
The folder is a back up bike now and all of my time and effort is on other 2 bikes since they are used all of the time.

Duragrouch

In that area, lube is no problem, but for neatness, probably use silicone spray and not oil or grease, for the contact area. The pin you can drip a heavier oil in there.

My MacGyvered Deltech has tightened up that joint, so the pin is more in pure shear, and not bending.

tds101 

The bottom bracket was a nightmare. He did his mods and it turned out nice, but not up to his specs.
It's the opposite with IGH hubs. They're easier to maintain in inclement conditions and need less service. Saying they need to be torn down and lubed annually is BS. That shop doesn't sound so respected to me. There are hubs out there that haven't been serviced in YEARS and are used in all types of weather. My recommendation to you is find another bike shop...

PS: Please learn how to multi-quote...

Duragrouch

Yes I just figured out how to multi-quote.

Yeah I try not to ride my bike in the rain because it trashes the (derailleur) drivetrain, but even worse on the rims due to rim brakes.

The bike shop is super respected with regard to IGHs, and they have pictured examples on their website of neglected hubs. However, some of the newer hubs may now have better seals. I would imagine that they are good on a Rohloff. Here's the shop's web page for IGHs, scroll way down to see examples of neglect, insufficient axle nut torque, etc. This is Aaron's Bike Repair/Rat City Bikes. They are actually not my nearest LBS, and I do all my own service, but I picked up a Dahon (Vitesse?) with IGH 3 brand new from a grad student leaving town (he bought it not knowing that all the buses here have bike racks, he just used his mountain bike the whole time). But I wanted to lube it myself (I printed out the hub shop manual) or have them do it before serious miles. Will probably sell it as I did a short ride and it doesn't have enough gear range for this hilly city. Anyway:

https://www.rideyourbike.com/internalgears.shtml

Jipe

I looked at the website you gave.

I do not think that the problem is rain and humidity.

I also live in a rainy place, and even if I do not like the Brompton Sturmey Archer IGH, they are really reliable and do not need the service the LBS owner recommend. They last many years with a daily all year use, warm or cold, dry or rain. And the Brompton with its small diameter wheels is a kind of worst case for an IGH because the wheel, rpm are high and the hub is close to the ground so it receive more water and dirt when riding than a big diameter wheel.

I think the problem in Seattle is the same as for all seaside places, i.e. salt. Along a rainy seaside its not only humid but humidity is salted.

Its bad for IGH but also for all bike parts, bolt, spokes, steel frame... Even stainless steel spokes and bolt rust in salty environment like seaside environment. Broken spokes on recent bikes is very common for bikes used along the seaside. Bike rental shops located on the seaside know very well this problem, many change their rental bikes every year to avoid this problem.

The only solution is to regularly wash the bike, ideally weekly and for people traveling along the seaside to wash it when they leave the seaside.

About IGH maintenance, for simple IGH like the Sturmey Archer, there is almost none needed. For sophisticated like the Rohloff, a yearly oil change (with specific Rohloff oil) is enough, changing oil is very easy, it takes about 15min to do it (I have 2 bikes with a Rohloff, a Hase Pino tandem and a Brompton, the oldest one is now 12 year old without any maintenance excepted oil change and cog change).

Duragrouch

(above) I've pulled apart IGHs in my youth, I was an engineer, but I gotta think that shop knows more about IGH maintenance than me. And I don't often assume intelligence nor superior work regarding LBSs, I do more careful work on my bike than many. But that is specialized knowledge, I have not done a tiny fraction of the work that they have on IGHs.

A Rohloff or other with good seals, and easy to drain and add new lube yearly, I would bet does not need annual teardown.

Salt in Seattle is not bad at all, I don't think a factor unless you live right on the water. I biked (on-road) along the ocean in Oregon and that was an entirely different story, so much dry salt deposited onshore that even on a sunny day, the wind blows the salt onto the bike, my glasses, my clothes, everything. I've never had that happen in Seattle. It's just wet from above. And most of the year, that wet keeps the near-puget-sound areas well-rinsed and salt-free. Even during the summer drought, I never recall seeing the salt blowing like in Oregon. Oh, and unlike there, Seattle doesn't get the crashing waves and spray onshore all the time, occasionally in the winter there might be good size waves, but the fetch across the sound to the Olympic peninsula is so small compared to unfettered ocean in Oregon shores. I've never really thought about it until that ride in Oregon, yeah, there, tons of salt in only an hour of riding. But inland a half mile and further, none at all.

You want bad salt on roads in the winter months? The upper midwest, the Salt Belt. Used to really rot out cars quick, many people like me had a winter "salt rat" to preserve our better car. Modern cars have much better corrosion resistance. Plus it doesn't get as cold or snowy, ski places went out of business many years ago due to climate change.

Jipe

In seaside places I mention where there are salt problems, you do not see the salt, no visible salt deposit, but nevertheless, the atmosphere is salty.

This happen not only on the ocean coast, but even on a warm relatively warm coasts like the Mediterranean sea coast of Spain.

Not only bikes suffer, window and door frames, terrace railings... in anodized aluminum or stainless steel suffer also a lot and do not last as long as elsewhere.

In Brussels which is also rainy, many people are commuting daily, all year with bikes with IGH and what is shown on the pictures of your lbs never happens.

The most problematic bike part in a salty environment, even with invisible salt, is the spokes because they are under a high, variable, tension, even if they are made of stainless steel, they rust. This rust is the easiest to see at spokes crossing, where two spokes touches.

Duragrouch

Well I think the IGHs may be a lot better than in my youth, where it had no good seals.

Oh I know what you're talking about in terms of coastal corrosion, and yeah, near the shore, I see it on bikes stored at the saltwater marinas. But even a little inland, I haven't seen that. Seattle just doesn't get that highly atomized sea spray like other ocean places, that carries further inland, the saltwater borders are usually pretty calm. The humidity in summer is low for a coastal area, high in the winter but that is from the freshwater rain rinsing everything. That's the only things I can guess. I never have seen salt on the roads, whereas in Oregon, it was everywhere, you could see it. I had more salt on my sunglasses from a short shoreline ride, than sailing on puget sound all day. Moss on roofs and other places, like where the car window meets the door, that's a huge problem, way worse than salt.

Jipe

The Mediterranean cost of Spain is a dry place, little rain and the sea is usually relatively quiet, not like the ocean with also most of the time no or little wind. But the wind/air passing over the sea become salty and goes several km inland.

I went several time for work in Seattle, indeed the coast is not straight, its the opposite with many islands, but it is still salty water.

tcs

No idea when your youth was.

The 1937 Sturmey-Archer AW design (a mildly updated version of which is still in production) used/uses labyrinth seals: overlapping groves filled with grease. (Fun fact: These seals were just about the only thing Jobst Brandt liked about the AW.)



I recently inspected/re-lubed a WWII-era AW. The outside looked like it was Audie Murphy's companion but the inside was pristine. This is pretty common with the 1920s~ and younger hubs I see cats pulling apart and inspecting on the Sturmey-Archer Facebook group.

Duragrouch

The hubs I worked on in my youth were circa mid-1960s Steyr (Austria) pull-chain 3-speed (most probably a copied or license-built Sturmey Archer design), and an early 1970s Shimano push-linkage 3-speed. Both hubs had a port to add lube. My only IGH acquisition since the '70s is a folder with a SRAM i3(?) hub with no lube port, owners manual says "permanently" lubed, but Mercedes-Benz made the same claim about their automatic transmissions in the 1990s and people blew a lot of them, so I tend to be suspect of that. I have considered whether to drip in gear lube via the chain port, but don't know if lubed with grease or gear lube, I'll want to determine first. Got new bike in a deal but only rode it 500 ft, gearing too narrow for these parts, so no miles on it yet.

Yes, I was talking about labrynth seals, although I didn't know they were supposed to be filled with grease, I thought they were intended such that invading particles would need to travel a labrynth (air) path. Yes, with grease would be better. I never had service manuals back then, had to figure out myself, this was all owned bikes and I was 12 years old. However, in later years before I could afford a good bike, I had to tolerate bottom brackets and pedals with zero seals, only plenty of grease, and contaminants would cling to the surface of the grease and invariably get pulled inside. A greased labrynth may be slightly better. From my much later industry experience, I learned that good practice was a double-lip shaft seal, inner lip to seal in grease, grease between the two lips, and an outer lip to keep out dust. That worked well for both rotating, and axial-sliding smooth shafts, chrome-plated for corrosion resistance and surface hardness.