Hondo6

Ran across the following and thought I’d share it with other forum members.

Recently, I ordered some 11-ball retainers for use with bottom brackets. Source was Bike Tools Etc. (Let’s not start a “retainers vs. loose balls” discussion, please. Properly installed and maintained, an 11-ball retainer causes negligible if any additional friction and holds the same number of balls as would be used if using loose balls in a bottom bracket. IMO that means there’s no downside to using them, and it does simplify assembly.)

They arrived yesterday, to my surprise. USPS is now delivering mail here again.

These new retainers appear to fit and work. But they are of a different design than the classic Campy/Shimano 11-ball retainers. They appear to be virtually identical to 9-ball retainers, except they hold 11 vice 9 balls. And they appear designed to be installed in the same orientation as 9-ball retainers.

Here’s a quick pair of photos showing (left to right) the front and back of a “classic” 11-ball Shimano retainer, one of the new 11-ball retainers, and a Shimano 9-ball retainer.

Photo 1 – back view




Photo 2 – front view



Sorry for the pic quality; did this in a hurry.

I’ve done a dry assembly of a Shimano BB-A450 with all three. When I orient the new 11-ball retainer the same direction as the “classic” 11-ball retainer – e.g., with the open face inwards – the cup sits substantially farther outboard and does not spin freely. When I orient it the same way as a 9-ball retainer (open face outwards) the cup sits in the same location as a correctly oriented 9-ball and “classic” 11-ball retainer. It also spins freely. (Sorry, those photos will have to wait; kinda busy at the moment with storm cleanup. We were incredibly lucky - no apparent damage, lost most of fridge/freezer perishables, just now a royal cleanup PITA.)

I was surprised to find this. But it certainly looks to me like there are two different types of 11-ball retainers suitable for use with cup-and-cone bottom brackets. And it also looks like they at least one type is oriented the same as 9-ball retainers when used.

Comments?

panzerwagon 

Matching the open/closed-face sides of different retainers is irrelevant. What is important is matching the orientation of sides designed for cup vs cone. Your first photo shows the old 11-ball with the cup-side facing up, and the other two retainers with the cone-side facing up.

Sorry that you were affected by the storms— good luck with cleanup.

Hondo6

You are correct that the cup and spindle sides of the retained bearings must be correctly oriented. I know that.

I posted this because there's an old rule of thumb - which I've seen quoted here in numerous posts on Bike Forums - that says "the closed side of a 9-ball retainer goes inboard (towards the spindle), while the closed side of an 11-ball retainer goes outboard (towards the cup)." That rule does not seem to be universally true, given the fact that there are two different 11-ball retainer designs.

I was unaware of the two different retainer designs. I wanted to highlight this in case other members were similarly unaware of the two different designs, apparently requiring opposite orientations.

Thanks for the good wishes. We were incredibly lucky. Many within a few miles weren't.

repechage

Yes, just took apart a Dura-Ace EX bottom bracket. Different than others.
also different is the OEM debris spacer- it's outboard step extends into the bearing area much farther.
no mix and match.

SurferRosa

That doesn't make any sense to me.

Another great reason to use 11 loose balls.

Hondo6

I suspect is has to do with Campagnolo "rolling their own" re: bearing retainers vice using a more standard ball bearing retainer design, followed by Shimano copying Campagnolo's design for whatever reason.

To each his/her own. I prefer not to step on that one missing loose 1/4" ball bearing that got away from me and either (1) bruise a bare heel, or (2) end up on the floor because my shoe lost traction and I fell.

An 11-ball retainer of either type helps prevent both of these. And once you know there are two different designs, IMO the proper orientation for either type of retainer is easy to keep straight.

panzerwagon 

My go-to method for locating parts on my garage floor.

Hondo6

All too often mine too. And I never was particularly fond of pain.

SurferRosa

Hope your actual cycling comes easier than your indoor coordination.

Hondo6

It seems to. Been over 25 years since my last significant spill/crash, albeit with a longish break from riding due to past location and work responsibilities. (I hope I didn't just jinx myself.)

But those bearing balls are sneaky little bastiges. And after being cooped up inside for a while, they certainly seem to want to run loose and party. I've also found they're damn good at hiding in plain sight - as well as turning up where you least expect them.