cudak888 

If you can find any JUMP e-bikes or docked B-Cycles for rent in your area, the gradual torque application on either will be very similar to the Bafang mid-drives. The JUMP is a 350W hub-drive Bafang with a torque-sensing bottom bracket that works very similar to the mid-drive system, while the B-Cycles have mid-drive Bosch units; don't recall the wattage.

The JUMP is on the equivalent of Bafang's "high" mode, while the B-Cycle maintains the Bosch level-of-assist controller unit on the left side of the handlebar.

Either bike will give you a good idea of what these systems are capable of on much heavier, built-for-abuse e-bikes that weigh about 45 pounds on their own.

-Kurt

Reynolds 

If one wants a motorcycle, why don't just buy a motorcycle?

cudak888 

Because it isn't. Most e-bikes 48V and under still handle like a bicycle (no countersteering into every turn), and the pedal assist is just that - a throttle controlled by your pedaling input. It's a supplement, not a replacement, for your own

It's particularly beneficial for commuting and cargo bikes. I can also see these being quite beneficial if you've got a fun flat ride that's ruined by a ridiculous DOT designed bike overpass with unreasonable gradients.

-Kurt

casanewt

Correct. See below.

cudak888 

Verrrrry interesting.

(That reminds me, I've got to watch some more Laugh In).

-Kurt

Reynolds 

To me a motorcycle isn't defined by how it handles, or by how is its throttle controlled. Also I know having a motor is beneficial sometimes, like when you want to go faster. What defines a motorcycle is having a motor. If it has a motor, it's a motorcycle in my book.

cudak888 

What's your point by defining everything with a motor as a motorcycle? By doing so, you are inherently ignoring the difference between a highway-going Harley-Davidson vs. a Velosolex - to give a C&V comparison.

Even our bass-ackwards politicians know better than to classify e-bikes with motorcycles.

If you want to debate the point - semantics or otherwise, kindly take it to A&S. Imagine someone from the road forum coming over to C&V just to piss on every lugged steel thread. That's the same thing every time someone comes into an e-bike build thread just to piss on e-bikes.

This is a build thread. Let's keep it like that.

-Kurt

greenspark

In my part of the world, ebikes are allowed on the pedestrian ferry. Motorcycles are not. Ebikes do not require registration or a warrant of fitness (annual inspection), motorcycles do. Ebikes require a bicycle helmet. Motorcycles require a much heavier motorcycle helmet.

Having distinct nouns for distinct products is how humans communicate, and blurring the lines simply adds to confusion.

Regarding the original topic, I've been using Bafang BBS mid-drive motors since 2013. I rode serial number 1 at the factory and received serial number 17 from the factory to test - and then as part of a group buy ordered 27 units, with Paul at EM3EV agreeing to ship them to us along with his batteries, and give Bafang a try. The rest is history.

Here is the photo I took of the first BBS made... in the factory in January 2013 - wickedly cold day as I test drove it wearing a business suit and no overcoat.



The BB shaft was made of aluminium which caused some problems and was later replaced with steel. The company listened to customer feedback and the units have significantly improved. And now competitors are coming on stream as well. My original test units sit in a box. No longer working, but at some time in the distant future will be rediscovered as a part of history to be lovingly restored by someone (not me) - the same way we restore old cars or sewing machines.

I currently am running a 750W BBS-HD with a 52V battery on a Bella Ciao bike with a NuVinci N360 hub. Even though the bike has a single front and single rear sprocket, it requires a 7-8 speed chain to prevent it from jumping. Installation is, as folks commented, easy. Remove bottom bracket, slip in motor, use supplied clamps to lock it in. No threading. The reason for the 7-8 speed chain is to adjust for any non-alignment between front and rear sprockets.

The 750 W is just about right. It is not crazy fast, but it keeps up with city traffic. Good brakes are important. I've installed the earlier BBS01 on a 1951 Raleigh DL-1, Pashley, Velorbis fat tyre, Gazelle Dutch, Montague Crosstown foldable, Mercedes-brand aluminium, cheap auction site bikes (never more than $40) for house guests, Gary Fisher hardtail, and we had a group buy installing them on a wide range of bikes (including a Pedersen)... all with great success.

Since then, ebikes have taken off in New Zealand - land of many hills and strong winds. Covid wiped out our national inventory as many shunned buses for open-air bikes.

It would be a mistake to think of ebikes in the same class as bicycles. Different audience. Ebike is now a new form of transport that happens to be buildable using a wide range of bicycles thanks to companies like Bafang that engineered motors to fit hubs or bottom brackets.

cudak888 

Beautifully put, @greenspark - and thanks for adding your experiences too.

Curious about the Bella Ciao build - would love to see photos. The combination of the mid-drive and the N360 (which I've never experienced, and really do wish to do so at some point) intrigues me.

Out of curiosity, what caused your early-production BBS01s to get retired? Your comment about their historical importance brought up in my mind the revision in the BBS models a few years ago - though was that with the BBS02? Don't remember.

-Kurt

casanewt

Thanks for the input and all of the history. All of the different conversion options are very intriguing. Now that I did a conversion of an older bike and have put some miles on it, I must say it is truly a game-changer. It's the opposite of range-anxiety, it's range-confidence. There is nothing holding you back from doing that 20 mile commute on a bike anymore, even if it is a lot of hills and start and stop riding. It is just so fantastic to be able to take a great bike you already have and give it magical powers and have it be completely reversible down the road if you want to take the motor off.

casanewt

I forgot to mention that my friend that sold me the used Bafang BBS02B and helped with the install is an admin of a Bafang builders group over on Facebook, if anyone is interested. https://www.facebook.com/groups/686118998504030

greenspark

The prototypes stopped working. I'm not electrically minded, so when we did the bulk group buy, I replaced them.

The Nuvinci N360 is probably overkill. A 3 speed hub is all an ebike needs, although I prefer wider gearing. I find I'm either super low, mid range or top ratio. The other day I got a flat, and found the exterior Nuvinci bits were coming apart (little plastic gears were falling out). Got it back together, but when it quits, I'll probably replace it with a Shimano Nexus 3 speed.

This was my first Bella Ciao install back in 2014. We went to Berlin, bought these from Matthias, the owner of Bella Ciao, rode them without motor to Prague, flew them home and I installed the BBS01. On my wife's Bella Ciao I installed a front hub motor.



Later I commissioned Velouria of Lovely Bicycle fame to design her ideal bicycle geometry and had the Italian frame maker build it. We collected the frame, guards & fork (the latter being the secret sauce, similar angle to a DL-1) enroute to Milan airport, flew it home, again as checked luggage, and I built it up with various bits and pieces. My wife got on it, fell in love and it became her bike which she uses regularly.

I wanted to organise a mail order service to support these dying breed of small manufacturers, but while DHL ships from Germany for €108, the same shipment from Italy worldwide would be €3000, so we ended up with a unique model that has a wonderful ride. One day I hope to get back to the project.



Finally, I came across a very used (read seriously worn) Bella Ciao women's bike on our local auction site. I find riding a bike with the Frascona curve to be more suitable for our conditions. When crossing an intersection in Auckland with red lights and four-way pedestrian crossing, I lift my left foot on the pedal, move my right foot onto the left pedal and "scooter" my way through, thus technically I become a pedestrian legally entitled to cross. Not so easy to do with the men's bike and its high top tube.

This particular frame has a higher bottom bracket than our first two Bella Ciaos. Not sure why, but it means I can take a curve flat out and not have the pedal strike the pavement. Because of the weight of the battery, I installed 2 kickstands - necessary to keep it standing when the ferry is bucking in a storm. I built my own aluminium luggage rack both to house the battery and carry cement bags, kitchen sinks, etc. Because it is an Italian frame (Dedacciai tubing), it is flexible, and silly weight on the back makes it very whippy. I probably should look for a Surley, Kona or another rigid frame when using it as a truck... except that when riding without excess luggage it is so much more comfortable: the two-wheel equivalent of a Jaguar X350.

The bike came with fenders/guards that were constantly going out of adjustment, so I replaced the rear with a steel one from an old Raleigh and drilled holes to attach zip ties to keep it in place - hence the name ratbike. Yes, it keeps getting heavier, but I don't live in a walk-up apartment.

Tyres are Schwalbe Delta 700 x35C with a thornproof tube in the rear (just added this after the last Friday's flat). It has a BBSHD 750W motor using an Eggrider display but am annoyed that the plastic clip broke on it. I will write them to complain, but in the meanwhile rigged it with a drilled-hose clamp as one does when living at the bottom of the earth. It has an ancient Brooks saddle that moves from bike to bike... like the Viking sword, they will probably bury it with me when the day comes. Brooks grips, rear view mirror (absolutely essential on an ebike in traffic) and Shimano dynamo which means day-running LED lights. The brown leather wrap on the frascona curve down tube is to cover the excess length cables.

It also looks rough enough to deter the growing problem of organised gangs stealing ebikes. It has a rear-wheel lock for popping into a cafe with the bike in sight and an Abus Bordo folding lock for higher risk parking. I wash it after every ferry ride with salt-cleaner obtained at our local marine supply store. It must work because the mirror is crystal clear afterwards. Nevertheless when I pull anything apart, I find rust, thus every few years it will need a major overhaul. The bell is due to be replaced, as you can see in the photo.

casanewt

Installed this today to deal with chain hop. Found it on eBay and it is really well made. Same as leaving your front derailleur on. I probably should have done that and just devised a way to lock it in place. Anyways, problem solved. I've put just over 30 miles on the e-Panasonic now and just put it on the charger. I cannot recommend trying out an e-bike enough. Still decent exercise for me and it just helps flatten out the hills.

cudak888 

Interesting. I've been sold a nearly identical guide - which in itself was an OK piece - but mounted to a terrible scrap of aluminum which mounted to the BB.

Yours looks like a much better setup. Glad to hear it's working well.

-Kurt