BikeforHealth

We are at risk of being killed like the bicyclist in Miami yesterday. I am tired of being treated like a second class citizen! I was riding in Miami last week and was nearly struck by a driver turning left but looking right. He was then indignant that I was riding a bicycle in the road. I would like to know how we can make roads safer and more appealing to bicyclists and educate the public to pay attention to bicyclists. I have an air horn to wake up the sleepers but it does not help if they are behind you!

Does anyone have opinions on measures to improve safety? Are there any simple things that will make a difference?

I think engineers are ignorant of bicycle safety. How do you feel about minimal design design standards for designated bicycle lanes? If engineers are going designate bicycle lanes they must be safe and usable. They should not be narrow, full of pot holes, bumps and turns which would not be tolerated for cars.

How do you feel about barriers and separated shoulder lanes?

Obesity and diabetes are fast becoming epidemic. Bicycle commuting may be an answer. Most of us who use bicycles for transportation are less likely to have those problems. The government is spending a fortune fight the obesity epidemic. Why not spend some to make the roads safer and encourage bicycles!

buzzman

These are really great questions you are asking and accidents like the one you described in Miami are upsetting to all of us. I do think, however, this thread would be best in the A & S forum.

For one thing these are issues that affect all cyclists- not just commuters. And there will be a wide variety of "opinions" some driven by facts and experience and some unsupported by anything of any real substance. Keeping the commuter forum specific to those issues specific to commuting will keep the commuter forum from getting as contentious as A&S can get.

Get ready for some heated responses.

I'm with you on that.

sauerwald

You have more control over your own safety than anybody or anything else. The more educated you are, the safer you are.
As a second priority, I would lobby your local officials to enforce traffic laws for all users of the roads. Neither of these things need cost much, if anything. Indeed traffic law enforcement could be an income source.

gerv 

Heated responses, no doubt. But this is a very good question the OP poses.

RedWhiteandRed

The problem rests largely with the police and their unwillingness to enforce the laws of the road.

jputnam

Simply having more cyclists visible on the road makes the road safer for everyone -- motorists look for what they expect to see.

There are national standards for bicycle lanes, but they are largely advisory.

Most states have state-level standards, usually based on the national standards, that are nominally mandatory on state projects, but often ignored or misunderstood by car-oriented project managers and designers.

Find out what your local and state standards are, get familiar with them, and report deficiencies to the appropriate public works department, with a cc to the jurisdiction's city/county attorney's office, since they're the ones who have to try to defend the jurisdiction when public works creates a hazardous facility in violation of standards.

Usually hazardous and substandard, and often significantly increase the risk of intersection conflict, which is a greater threat to cyclists than overtaking vehicles.

The Advocacy & Safety forum has many discussions on this.

DX-MAN

One of the more fanatic Euro nations -- can't remember if it was the Netherlands or Denmark -- has a law in place that says, in a car/bike accident, the driver is presumed at fault until proven otherwise. Unfair as this sounds, and actually can be, it may take that to wake up the caged masses.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about that. With the way things are already in this country, it wouldn't take much more for anarchy to just spill over. When cops and judges enforce whatever laws they see fit to enforce, and in whatever way they choose, then where are thre standards? Where is the line drawn?

lambo_vt

You genuinely feel the country is on the brink of anarchy? I think you're overreacting. The road rage doctor just got five years; where are all these lawless cops and judges to which you're referring?

The Human Car

I do wounder at times if it is the police or the judicial system who is at fault. The police are under pressure to enforce "important" laws and not give the court system frivolous cases that waste the courts time. If you spent time in traffic court there are lots of games being played to get out of tickets, like keep postponing the date till the arresting officer doesn't show up and get the charged dismissed. Some places getting a speeding ticket for "just" 10=15mph over the limit isn't considered worth the courts time so the police do not even bother to give tickets for such a "minor" violation.

The Human Car

64% of Bicycle fatalities are at NON-intersections. https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/People...lcyclists.aspx

Pedaleur

Netherlands. Though from my casual observation, drivers don't get a free ride in Denmark, either.

Search for "strict liability".

NoRacer

I believe this, too, but it's "Catch-22".

You need more cyclists on the road to demonstrate that it's safe, but more cyclists won't ride the road until it's safe.

IMHO, one way to get more cyclists on the road is through clubs and forming club rides. Except for the hardcore cyclists that will be out there no matter what, club rides can influence more timid rides out on to the streets, especially if they get some sort of mentoring from a more experienced cyclists before, during, and after these rides. The mentors should teach safe riding techniques and stay within the bounds of traffic laws.

The Human Car

I've got hundreds of examples here, school bus hit and runs, MTA bus hit and runs, MTA bus failing to stop for pedestrian (on video even,) police refusing to take accident reports involving a cyclist if the driver was at fault , $140 fine for first time killing a cyclist by reckless speeding, police ordering cyclists on the sidewalk, motorist doing 50mph on a 35mph road kills a cyclists - no one at fault, cyclists killed by right turning truck with no turn signals turning from the wrong lane - cyclists at fault.

lambo_vt

Unfortunately that's how the legal system works. Just because we "know" something or can infer from poorly-written newspaper reports doesn't mean we have any idea what actual evidence the police have. I'm not looking for accidents between bicycles and motor vehicles, I'm talking about examples of blatant failure of the justice system to properly function.

And if you really want to argue about fault, read practically any thread on this forum where a cyclist is injured. A huge proportion of the nut posters here will be clamoring at any little detail claiming the cyclist was at fault, often ignoring significant mistakes on the driver's part. If you want to lament the function of the justice system, look at the potential jurors in this forum who are supposedly pro-bike. Sure, they'll split hairs and say "well the driver should legally be at fault but the cyclist was stupid and wrong" but juries often have trouble telling the difference between legal and moral culpability.

The Human Car

Locally I am a bit more involved then "just poorly-written newspaper reports." But spend some time here: https://www.bicyclelaw.com/blog/ and I think you will come away with a different point of view.

lambo_vt

It would take a lot to convince me that we're on the edge of anarchy as stated above. That blog doesn't rise to that level.

The conclusion from the top posting:

Again, I don't dispute that bad things happen and that outcomes are sometimes not great. But again, if you want to know why, look at the posters in this very forum.

lil brown bat

+100.

Be pragmatic. If you want to be safer, start first with the things that will give you the best results for the least effort. Those are your own actions, decisions and skills. Don't waste energy trying to get other people to modify their behaviors until you've made sure there aren't a few simple things you can do that will greatly improve your safety.

DX-MAN

You are a piece of work; you want DATA.

How about all the experiences cyclists have of being buzzed/clipped/hit, police get involved, and the onus of blame falls on the cyclist for even being in the road? They don't get widely reported, so there's no data for that. Or all the times a cyclist is run off the road, and can't even GET a police response, because they weren't severely injured, or the cop wasn't already there to witness it?

I see it daily; drivers commit flagrant traffic violations THAT ENDANGER OTHERS, right in front of a cop, and the cop just rolls on by!

The one I can claim personal experience in, being told BY A COP to get on the sidewalk, which was buried in two feet of plowed snow, and threatened with jail for backtalk! You think the Chief would lift a finger to address a citizen complaint? Dream on.

The majority of the 'data' you insist on is anecdotal, which you would pooh-pooh as purely subjective, one-sided silliness.

You must live in some 'model of civility', not to see the breakdown of the rest of it. Look at the roads in New Jersey, or read the horror stories from OTHER DRIVERS in northern VA! Ask the family of the cyclist gunned down while riding his bike in Vegas. Or the stories of CA cyclists hit and killed on empty roads by inattentive speeders -- do a search HERE for it, you'll find them, cuz I read them on this forum. A sheriff's deputy took out a rider training for a race, and got nothing in the way of discipline or punishment.

The Human Car

In my Chrystal ball I see we are waffling around the "edge of anarchy" while some good news is out there but still overall more bad news then good. That is lowly ratcheting things up to an uncomfortable level.

Some incredible stories from Mionske's blog:

Judge: Woman hit in unpainted bike lane is not protected by law
When The Law Doesn't Say What The Court Thinks It Should Say
In the Court of Absurd Results
NonExistent Laws And The Cops Who Enforce Them
https://www.baltimorespokes.org/artic...00110103919905

As long as bicycle law and bicycle safety training is not mainstreamed into police training as well as judges not supplied with proper materials to correctly interpret laws we will have this problem. Hence we are moving toward more mainstream awareness of the failure of government and possible anarchy IMHO.

crazybikerchick

For personally improving your own safety, I can suggest taking a defensive cycling course, and making use of a rear-view mirror, making eye contact with drivers etc. For making our roads safer in general, we need to slow them down! Not designing roads for speed.

I personally don't think barriers and separated lanes work well in cities, where there are a lot of intersections (which cause the most conflicts). I'd rather have the option to move to the left of a right-turning vehicle rather than trust he would yield to me when I am going through a barriered lane on the right hand side.

As well barriered lanes create problems with debris removal, snow removal (yeah I know not a problem in Miami!) They can work but to work well they can't be a compromise designed with driver convenience in mind.

pharasz

I feel your pain. But railing about it won't help. As other posters advise, the best thing you can do is contribute money to your local bicycle advocacy group. That is what I do. I give money to the Florida Bicycle Association, which is doing it's best to educate law enforcement, cyclists, and motorists, and they lobby on behalf of cyclists with the legislature and the Dept of Transportation.

In the mean time, you must accept the fact that our society is completely ignorant to its slow death caused by its addiction to the automobile - it is the same effect heroin has on its users. You will always be nothing more than an irritant in the motorists distorted view of reality. So accept that fact and do your best to ignore the abuse, and do your best to ride as safely as you can in spite of their impaired view of reality.

You are better than them and you know it, so do your best to act like it.

Bioflamingo

I live in a very anti-cyclist town. It is not uncommon to be violently threatened or have things thrown at you. It's not safe out there. Too many people out there that are distracted with whatever will never even notice a cyclist until it's too late. There's always the risk of being robbed or mugged by random people who need drug money or are just plain bored. The streets are not a friendly place. The law is more than likely NOT on your side, regardless.

That's reality. What is also reality is that if you give in to the fear then you lose a bit of yourself. All you can do is try to educate everyone you talk to about commuting. They may laugh and call you stupid, but in their mind they've been made at least a little more aware of the fact that cyclists are real people too. If all you do is step back and let whatever happens happen, then things will only get worse. We live in tough times with chaos all around us, but if we look forward with a goal, and we reach for that goal, then there's a very good chance that things will get better. Or we can sit in the corner and cower like a frightened dog, complaining but doing nothing. I choose to reach for a better tomorrow.

RedWhiteandRed

Sounds ike you should organize a critical mass ride - maybe one or two riders grabbing a lane to start.

lambo_vt

I certainly do. If you'd prefer to legislate by anecdote, there are certainly thousands of posters on this very board that would agree cycling is remarkably safe and actually downright fun. Which reminds me, I read something about a few planes being crashed into some tall buildings... perhaps flying is unsafe? A large group of students were gunned down at my alma mater. Perhaps college is unsafe? Some Colombians smuggle drugs into this country, so maybe we shouldn't let Colombians enter the US?

The data here indicate that cycling is quite safe, and that most people would be much better off riding a bike than watching American Idol. So, it's quite convenient for you to claim the data are wrong and/or don't exist.

I must. I've ridden quite a bit in NoVA and elsewhere, and I'd estimate that at worst I experience rudeness from maybe 1 in 100 drivers, in fact probably less than I encounter when driving. I've seen plenty of posts in Commuting to the same effect. Again, only if you'd like to discuss via anecdote.

Further, you should read my posts. I don't dispute the fact that bad things happen to cyclists on occasion, and that on occasion they are not handled well. The same is true of murders, robberies, road rage, embezzlement, and so on. The justice system has its limits, but that's not really what we're talking about, is it?

However, on the whole, cycling is remarkably safe. There is no systemic campaign to eliminate cycling in the US. Most drivers are not hateful murderers intent on running you down. Most policemen are not out to get you. Cycling may be nominally more dangerous than running on a treadmill, though heart attacks really can get you. Either are safer than sitting on your couch for thirty years.

To say that because some people have been injured while cycling means we're on the brink of anarchy is at best hyperbolic, ridiculous, and silly. At worst, this kind of talk actually makes cycling seem like a dangerous activity only adrenaline junkies undertake, which is harmful to the cause of the so-called cycling advocate: getting more people on bicycles. If you'd prefer to argue that bicycling is so dangerous that no one can safely do it as long as cars are on the road, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle. Even beloved Amsterdam has vehicular traffic.

Bioflamingo

The idea of commuting by choice is blasphemy around here, and I'm not joking. It's a smallish town (~40,000 people), so there is little to no cycling infrastructure. I've met maybe a dozen other people who commute by choice. It's not necessarily an unfriendly town, people just don't realize that cycling isn't just for kids. There's very little mugging/robbing of joggers/cyclists, but cars hitting people or taunting them aren't too uncommon. They don't realize that a half drunken bottle of pop thrown at me can potentially cause me to kill myself. It's just a game, and they must be educated on the rules.

I've been working on convincing people that we need to go on a large ride through town this spring, and I've had about a dozen people agree to go. May not sound like many to some, but 12 cyclists on the road at once around here is an unheard of number.