ham

I'm almost certain this isn't a real Colnago, any guesses as to what it actually is?

Here's what I know:

Repainted
Gilco or similar shaped tubing - top tube has two flutes, down tube has four
Italian BB threading
130mm (or very close to it) OLD
Takes a 27.2mm post
Fork end is Columbus
Dropout is unbranded (or covered in paint)
Steerer tube has internal rifling
No serial number that I can see

Can anyone narrow it down beyond "very late 80s / early 90s Italian frame with probably SL tubing"?

CliffordK

Lots of pictures including photos of the lugs?

ham

Added.

Hoopdriver

Is that paint or powder coat. It looks a bit thick. Not a Colnago, but still looks like a nice frame. Why do you think it's late 80's or early 90's? It may be older than that because the dropouts look similar to Campy 1010A, but that may be my eyes playing tricks. OTOH, the 130 OLD and double bottle mounts say that you are probably right.

No clue what it might be, but thanks for sharing the pics.

CliffordK

I'm going to put it in the mid 80's.

Features:

• Long (Campy) Dropouts (passe by mid 80's, replaced by short, then vertical dropouts)
• Seat Tube/Downtube Bottle Mounts
• Recessed Brakes. At least on the fork, and I believe also on the rear brake bridge.
• Square rear brake bridge.
• Under Bottom Bracket Cable Routing (metal, but that may be a builder's choice).
• Front Derailleur braze-on
• Internal Top tube cable routing.
• Braze-on DT shifter bosses.
• Pump peg**********

I wouldn't strip the bike just yet. The bike SHOULD say Colnago on it somewhere if it was a Colnago, which is a major problem. However, Colnago did use similar parts on different bikes.



TT from Mexico
DT from Mexico or Spiral Conic (can you measure the diameters of the two ends of the Downtube?)
Bottom Bracket from Colnago Sport
Seatstay/Chainstays finished like Colnago at rear dropout.
Top of seatstay/chainstays look like Colnago (missing clover)
Brake Bridge used on Colnagos

Square brake bridge common on Colnagos (missing clover)


So, while I doubt this is a genuine Colnago, it has enough features that it may well have been made by someone associated with the company, or with access to Colnago parts.


I am seeing several other brands with the fluted tubing. Fausto Coppi, De Rosa, and Olmo, but none seem even as close of a match as a Colnago. Perhaps it was built to be intended to be a copy.



Oh, I am curious about the branding on the rear dropouts.

CliffordK

I mentioned above, but can you measure both ends of the downtube?

ham

It's standard diameter on both ends (ie not tapering). Also scraped some paint off the dropouts and I didn't see anything.

SJX426 

I must say that this is very close to what a Colnago frame would look like. Lack of ID, lug cutouts and the crimped stays to the rear DO eliminate it from being one. Even the seat stay caps are the same without the empossing. Not too sure about the TT internal cable routing either.

Is the whole fork chrome? check the steerer.

Looks like the fork has the same curvature too!

Very nice construction, otherwise and I really like the clean brazing of the rear DO to stays. I would build it and enjoy it.

SJX426 

I must say that this is very close to what a Colnago frame would look like. Lack of ID, lug cutouts and the crimped stays to the rear DO eliminate it from being one. Even the seat stay caps are the same without the empossing. Not too sure about the TT internal cable routing either.

Is the whole fork chrome? check the steerer.

Looks like the fork has the same curvature too!

Very nice construction, otherwise and I really like the clean brazing of the rear DO to stays. I would build it and enjoy it.

CliffordK

Since the bike has so many features in common with a Colnago Nuovo Mexico, a Colnago Spiral Conic, or a Colnago Sport, you might write to Colnago and ask if they can help with the ID.

There is no guarantee that you would get a response back, but I still think that the bike may have been made by somebody closely associated with the company unless it was purposely built to be a fake.

Anyway, perhaps they would at least be able to confirm, or let you know of an associated builder who made bikes like that.

ham

Still don't know what this is, any other theories?

rccardr 

Chombi1 

Could it be a custom frame "inspired" by Colnago?

Nguyen Dang

This might be the right answer!

crank_addict

Neat frame to build upon. Though I don't see Colnago (club) nor Colner (spade) in that bottom bracket. If Colner, it would have that spade, specific to identify as separate manufacturer from covert Colnago to the pro cycling org. bosses, not just by applying decals. This done to allow another team.

Gilco type crimped tubing is interesting. Looking forward to hear further opinions.

unworthy1

Another possibility is Marcel Calborn's Celo Europa "housebrand" these often were as close to a Colnago as anybody got since they were not "homage" but more of a "Gentleman's agreement" between Ernesto and Marcel

Mackers

Cornelo perhaps.

They're an in house brand from dutch bikeshop Kokkes Sport whose owners were admirers of Colnago.
Frames made in Italy and finished in Holland (St. Willebrord if memory serves)
Several of their frames used hig end profiled Columbus tubing and were often resprayed and passed off as Colnagos.

Shedson

please contact me

Shedson

I have this exact frame and have been wondering the same. Do you have any information??

seagrade 

Most if not all the features of the pictured frame were available from Tecnotrat, a house builder outside Milan which built thousands of frames branded De Bernardi and Saronni, as well as countless others.

I was involved in importing hundreds into New Zealand in the late 1980s under those two brands and visited the factory at the time. Everything was available from an extensive menu, including all grades of Columbus tubing, chromovelato finishes and shaped/rifled/grooved tubing.

When I saw the shaped tubing, bb shell and seat stay bridge reinforcements I immediately thought Tecnotrat, although many Italian builders could have offered similar. I can’t recall a single defining feature, although that was really the point. The seat stay top ends were often more pointed than those pictured, but that could have been a passing fashion and hardly definitive either way.

Back then if it could be copied and a customer wanted it, Tecnotrat would build it.

Gary Fountain

Any markings on the steerer tube? Probably not as you have already checked for internal rifling. Can you detect rifling in the tubes accessed at the bottom bracket?

Measure the width of the bottom bracket. 70mm wide would suggest an Italian built bike. 68mm - could be anywhere else.

Looks like Columbus tubing but other tubing suppliers did have rifling and crimping, e.g. I've seen Reynolds 501SL frame that had been crimped.

Nice frame.

verktyg 

Looks like a frame put together by some amateur.... Or maybe a poor repair??? Obvious errors and lack of details that a real frame builder would have addressed. Compare the filing on the dropouts vs. the hacked fork ends, especially the right one.



Most better quality frames had a radius filed into the top of the lug and seat tube not square cut like this one. Also note, the lug points are not thinned, and the poor quality workmanship over all. Anybody could have bought the tubing plus frame components and brazed it together... The most glaring thing is the Columbus sticker on the back of the seat tube which could have been done by whoever painted the frame!!!



Reminds me of something done in the East Bloc before the downfall...

verktyg

smd4

A lot of those features point to the late 1980s or later. Horizontal dropouts were definitely not "passe" by the late 1980s.

smd4

Great points. Those fork ends are absolutely hideous.

Robvolz 

but, but, but….
it features the spool shaped bracket I've only seen on Colnagos