garskoci@gmail.

So, I got myself in a bit of a quandary. A while back I built up a cyclocross frame that was a 9 speed. It had Shimano DuraAce shifters and FD. An FSA 50/34 crankset. An XTR RD and cassette. Canti brakes. Getting up there in age, I got the brainy idea to upgrade to 11 speed. The thought was that I could use the additional gearing on the hills. I basically, replaced the old components with same but newer 11 speed components. Only to find out that the XTR RD-M9000 and 11-42 cassette isn't compatible with my new Ultegra shifters. I guess that I'm looking for options. I'm in a bit of a time crunch. I have a race coming up on the 16th of March. Should I or can I replace the rear derailleur with a RX810 GRX 11spd and a 11-32 cassette? Is there any difference between GRX and Ultegra? I'm not opposed to replacing the shifters. I see that some people are able to run a 11-40 cassette with the RX810. I don't necessarily want to risk it for this race. Maybe afterwards. Any advice is appreciated.

Canker

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...nt=18367738757

delbiker1 

You can replace the derailleur and the cassette for Shimano Hyperglide, HG, that are compatible with the Ultegra. I would get the GS, medium cage rear derailleur and either a CS- hg7000 or 8000 cassette in the gearing you want. That would be less cost and, IMO, an easier switch to make. You have to match up the interface on the 11 speed components, such as hyper-glide, dyna-sys. The following is a chart from Shimano.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0&opi=89978449

zacster

https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com I believe this is the chart you need. Confusing, but if you go through it it has all of the compatibility. Don't forget to read the fine print, footnotes, etc... There can be a tidbit that'll make everything work. The bottom line though is that 10sp Road and MTB were close enough to work together but 11sp is not, and then there is GRX too now.

veganbikes

Essentially after 9 speed road and mountain got different cable pulls so they were incompatible, luckily now you have GRX which is road compatible with some MTB features and that is ideally what I would use. If you want to stick with XTR there are some cable convertors that may help but I would rather just have a natively compatible derailleur and GRX would be the go to because you could run an 11-42 I believe.

If you go Di2 then it all changes and you can run road shifters and a MTB rear derailleur but your derailleurs both have to be MTB or Road you cannot mix those at least not on the 2nd gen Di2 (11 speed).

delbiker1 Hyperglide has nothing to do with compatibility it is just their designation for their shifting ramps on cassettes, freewheels and chainrings and compatible chains that they have been using since the early 90s or maybe late 80s.

choddo

Although doesn’t the new CUES stuff come with its own, incompatible, Linkglide?

squirtdad

Need more information

what specific ultegra components ?

Mechanical or DI2

what type of brakes?

I am assuming drop bar bike and sti shifters

If it i mechanical and rim brake you should be able to just replace the rear derailler and get the 11/34 cassette

https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-Ul...hoClcoQAvD_BwE

https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-CS...RoC50sQAvD_BwE

GRX poses a problem as the current shifters are hydraulic disc

also cassettes that are 11-42 are usually for 1x setups. Grx has 2 rear deraillers one for 2x with a max of 34 for the cassette and one for 1x with 42 max in back

zacster

Looking at the chart I posted above, the RX810 GRX rear derailleur would work with an Ultegra mechanical shifter. And since you are replacing the cassette you should go with an Ultegra 11sp. The model numbers get confusing.

I remember the days when you could mix and match just about everything. Now you have to be careful you are getting components from the same versions of the group.

veganbikes

True, but I haven't yet seen CUES in the wild yet, I know it is out there but I haven't really played with so I don't think about it as much.

Mtracer

The Wolftooth Tanpan (linked above) is what you need. They work really well for converting the pull of Shimano road shifters to MTB derailleurs.

Bike Gremlin

GRX uses the same derailleur movement ratio (per mm of cable pull) as the other Shimano 11-speed road stuff (Ultegra and the likes).
So, a GRX RD should work fine with Ultegra shifters (and vice-versa).

GRX also offers 30-46 teeth double cranks - that could give you a lower gearing without requiring huge-plate-sized largest cassette sprocket(s).
Note that those cranks have chainrings that sit a few mm further "outwards" to better align with the wider "boost hubs".
So not a perfect choice in theory, but in practice, your chainline should be fine if not better as you will most likely do less cross chaining with 30-46 cranks, compared to 34-50 (especially when on the big ring).

You could also try friction shifters and good old triple cranks (with a matching front derailleur).
Triple cranks give you a very low gearing (and a very high one) even with "normal" cassettes.
Another benefit is that this allows you to run cheaper chains and cassettes (8 or 9 speeds).

Relja

garskoci@gmail.

Thank you all for your suggestions. At this point, I think that I'll give the Wolftooth Tanpan a go. I have the money already sunk into the XTR RD and cassette. If that doesn't work as advertised, I'll give the GRX a try. I'm hoping that the tanpan will get me through this first race. Then, I'll go through the Shimano docs as zacster pointed out. I appreciate everyone's replies. They are most helpful and given me some options.

zacster

My prediction? In 10 years none of this will matter. They'll have switched to electronic shifting completely because it is cheaper to build than mechanical. Shifters will become push buttons to activate the shift, brake levers will be just brake levers again, the derailleurs will become more generic in that all they need to know is how much to shift for each push and that'll be programmable. The only thing that'll distinguish them is how many teeth they can accommodate, assuming we are still using cassettes and not some other mechanism to shift. Sram is moving towards this but Shimano seems to be avoiding this. Just look at the cost of a 65" 4k LED TV or a Mac Mini and tell me that building a derailleur will cost more than that. Somebody in China is working on this. They'll even be able to make cheap retrofit systems. And you'll be programming it all from your phone.

I think even 10 years is an exaggeration.

veganbikes

Fixed that for everyone. It is important to note that it is road compatible. While GRX shares some commonality with Shimano's MTB stuff it is 100% only road compatible.

It is a shame that they changed the ratios but they did. However GRX helps bridge the gap somewhat giving you larger cassette capabilities and clutches with road pull ratios.

garskoci@gmail.

I think you're right. "Progress"! For me, i'll stay mechanical as long as I stay with this frame. It's probably my last upgrade. If I go with a new frame, maybe I'll consider electronic. But, I love this frame as is. I won't be going with anything new any time soon.

zacster

It is getting so complicated that you need the charts to know for sure. But yes, GRX is a ROAD group meant for wider rears (no not your rear, the bike's rear).

They changed the ratios with Dynasys 10sp. I have that on my commuter/touring bike and it was total overkill, but it worked really well. Shifts were a very light touch. Deore shifters and XT derailleurs. Worked like a charm and cheap. $24 for the shifters with the cables (the cables alone can cost that much), $60 for the XT rear derailleur, $30 for the 11-34 cassette and $28 for a box of 5 KMC chains (I think they were a mistake, I only ordered one). The brakes are XT v-brakes and Deore levers, $75 for both. $217 for the entire group. When I see systems costing over a grand I just shake my head. These aren't low end components, and the Dynasys 10sp was still current when I did this. I also built wheels with a 3N72 dynamo hub in front and an LX 10sp hub in the rear with Mavic XM317 rims. All together $260 with spokes, nipples, tape. The most expensive part on my entire rebuild? The dynamo light. That was one item I couldn't find at a bargain basement price but completely worth it when riding in the dark. And why do I describe all this? This was my upgrade from 7sp to 10sp back in the day when things were easier.