ryanl092

I always want to build a bike from frame up. Finally I grabbed a frame and now it's time to start the journey.
Having a frame and a few parts I does not plan to do period correct build. I wish I can build it with some part I like.
Then there comes the compatibility issues.



89 Pinarello Treviso


This is the portion why I like this frame. Same as De Rosa, Eddy Mercks ...etc.

And then there are the parts I want to install.

Using down tube shifter for me is like driving a manual gears car. I want to enjoy the ride with relax operation.

Parts I planed to collect:
[1] Campagnolo super record crankset (~84) Not to pair with my 10sp RD.
[2] Campagnolo (super/nuovo) record BB 36x24F ( This frame has a DuraAce 7400 BB, does it match the campy crankset ? What length do I need ?)
[3] super record or record brake levers
[4] camy headset. Does 1 inch headset has a standard that I can pick either record, chorus,...etc ??
[5] ...TBD.

For non compy parts I have a few options:

Mavic Cosmos hub/wheel with 10 speed cassette.


I may temporarily steal this from my ironman for a quick try out. It actually looks very similar to super record crankset.

It will be a few weeks or even months job. To be continue.....

P!N20

Cool. If you're planning on going 10 speed, check the rear dropout spacing, it will need to be 130mm. That frame would have come off the factory floor with 126mm spacing, most likely.

While the downtube friction shifters can work with a 10 speed cassette, you'll need to rotate the lever 180 degrees to get to low gear. If you don't like the sound of that another option is indexed 8 speed down tube shifters or 8/9/10 bar end shifters that can be converted to downtube shifters. If you really want friction shifters you'll either need to find some 8 speed dual mode shifters (good luck) or run a 7 speed drivetrain.

Bottom bracket spindle will need to be 113mm ISO square taper for Super Record cranks.

For the headset you'll need to check the stack height works with the steerer length.

ryanl092

Yes. I forgot I will need to cold set the frame to130mm.
As for 113mm square taper my 7400 BB is 113mm 36x24T italian thread.
Will it fit super record crank ? Or I need to find a 113mm campagnolo one.

For headset stack high issue does it mean I may need to cut the fork tube if the head set is short ?
Wow. That's quite a few things to be concerned.
Ryan

jdawginsc 

I find mixing Shimano BBS/cranksets with Campy’s sometimes are not perfect fits on the taper.

If your headset stack height is too short, add a spacer or two. You might want to later change to a headset that has more stack and you can’t add it back...

bikemig 

If you want friction, dia compe ene shifters are good. They're 10-11 spd compatible. Those campy downtube shifters are not that great.

icemilkcoffee 

Are you sure you want to friction shift 10 cogs? I think index-shifting 6 or 7 cogs is much more practical.

Tyler26

Clean!!

P!N20

Should fit, just make sure the square tapers are ISO not JIS.

It's easier to work out what your headset stack height needs to be and look for a headset that will fit.

It's all part of the fun!

ryanl092

Before I made this decision I put my 10 speed wheels to my Ironman which is 6 speed index(126mm) and changed the mode to friction. It works fine to me. Even though I have changed the 6 speeds to 13-28 gears, I felt a bit missing a better gearing sometimes. I admitted that the 6 speeds super record is very classic.

ryanl092

I found this https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespe...mendation.html during the forum search.
I hope the "Closest Taper End Size" is the one you mentioned. It shows the 7400 36x24T 113mm 70mm Italian thread BB is "Campy" in "Closest Taper End Size". Not the JIS as 7300.

ryanl092

I failed on the headset bid twice this week. I am thinking about a temporary solution.
It's 1 inch threaded ISO. stack high is about 39mm. (How accurate should I measure ?)
What choice can I pick ? Tange-seiki Levin, Origin8 pro ? I also saw a campagnolo record headset in Amazon ?
Is it real ? Please help...

Ryan

P!N20

As accurate as you can.

I'm assuming the steerer is 39mm longer than the head tube without any cups or races installed. So ideally your headset will have a 40-41mm stack height. You can also make a shorter head set work with an additional spacer or two, but that's not the neatest solution.

The Tange Levin has a 38.2mm stack height, so if you wanted to use that you'd need to add a 2mm spacer.

SJX426 

@ryanl092 - The Amazon Record HS is real. I bought one. Doesn't make sense to buy a used one for more money. I haven't used it yet but do have a target frame for it.

ryanl092

It turned out that Amazon's Record (36.5mm) and Tange Levin(38.2mm) are a bit too short for my 39mm stack height.
I finally chose FSA Duron X which is 40.6mm. Hope it works well.

First weekend task: cold set to 130mm.



Tools set up ready.



After a few try and reached 150mm. It turned out to be ~ 128mm, My electric ruler can only reached 154mm. More than that will make the frame in danger as I don't want to push it too hard.


Finally it reached 129.7mm+ as it drop from 129.9mm before I released my hand to take picture. I did push the frame to about 158mm+ to get it done. This is just my case. No guarantee it to other's cold set result.

2nd task for this long weekend: Touch up paint.

Pending gears : crank set. (super record 80+) I may face the issue between this crank, 10 speed chain and FD. Will see.
brake levers: Since I mixed with a 80+ crank and 2000 RD and a DT shifter. I want to use aero brake lever.
The choices from Campagnolo is limited. I don't know why I think mixing Campagnolo with Shimano is weird.



Ryan

ryanl092

Weekend update.


installed the Italian thread BB.


And then put on the downtube shifters


chorus brake


headset cups installed.


Finally I got stuck in this situation. Will find a 1 inch tube in HW store tomorrow or ask my LBS for help next.



End of day picture

Positron400

I added friction shifters to my 2x5 rebuild to a 2x10. Absolutely love it. It has a micro ratcheting mechanism which easily works with 10 (and I would imagine 11) speed cassettes
Don't let anyone discourage you from using it!
The frame is a beauty!

Regarding the crown race - I had the exact same issue. Tried it with a PVC pipe from the hardware store, but no dice. My LBS was very helpful in getting the crown race installed (I had to basically force them to take my Euros for the install)

I used a Hollowtech 24X36 (Italian threaded Ultegra BB) for a 1990ties frame. Obvs not period correct but works like a treat

smd4

Coming along nicely! Should be a beautiful bike and fun to ride.

ryanl092

I can't wait to set it up. I will give up my original plan to use '80 super record 53/42 crankset and choose the compact 50/34 instead. My 10 speed cassette is 12-27 from my '05 Bianchi Vigorelli. I replaced it with 11-32, so I have the 12-27 left for this bike. I also aware my 10 sp record RD can hopefully handle it. I got an unbranded compact for a try. If I like it a lot, I may try VO grand Cru one in the future. That looks great to me.
I can't get the spec of that crank, so I will have to experiment on the chainline later this Saturday. Will report soon. (No bottom out between crank and BB, finger cross


Almost done. Waiting for the crankset to arrive this Saturday.




Still looking for more classic campy levers. Will use this set first.

ryanl092

I found I missed one post about how I resolved the fork and headset race. I made it success with PVC tube.


I knocked the ground a few times and the race was pushed to its place.


This FSA headset actually looks nice to me.

sbarner 

Sorry, but that's the wrong way to cold set a frame. It would have been better to leave it as it was. The reason you had to go so much wider than 130 mm was because cold setting involves bending beyond the elastic deformation limit of the tubing. When that point is reached, the force required to permanently deform the tubing suddenly decreases, but doesn't go to zero, so as the force reduces it reaches the point where the deformation stops, but there is still some elastic deformation to be released. It is a bit like static versus sliding friction, in that once the greater static friction is exceeded, the force required to move it goes down. The practical side of all this in cold setting frames is that one side of the rear triangle will always yield before the other. If you put the frame on an alignment table, this will be obvious as the center of the dropouts will no longer be on the centerline of the frame. Proper cold setting to change rear dropout width involves cold setting each side individually. There is also the parallel alignment of the dropouts that should be done, typically with the equivalent of the Campy H tools.

The good thing is that the few millimeters difference between 126 or 127 and 130 won't be noticeable when you are riding any more than if you had your rear wheel a little off-center in the frame. Heck, many bikes don't have perfectly dished wheels, which also enters into the equation. Dropout misalignment will also be minor, if it were even correct before you started. It is best to leave things as they are at this point, since it is much, much worse to be bending the frame back and forth, due to work hardening of the material.

Cold setting classic frames is a one-way modification that can reduce the frame's integrity and collector value and which has dubious benefits. A seven-speed cluster is just a 10-speed with some less useful cogs removed. Proper cold setting is not a trivial and benign tweak. I really wish people wouldn't do it so often.

smd4

That's just BS.

ryanl092

Thanks for the warning. I took the risk and I won't regret it. I love those classic lug frames and I feel a need to have more than 6 speeds due to my age and hilly roads near by. I did notice people fixed the drop out bent after the cold setting. I will pay attention to it.

sbarner 

Both six and seven speed spacing were the same, at 126/127 mm. Seven speed used the "ultra" or narrow spacing introduced by Suntour, which allowed a six speed freewheel to be used in most 5-speed, 120 mm frames. By the late 1970s, there was 120 mm spacing which fit standard five and narrow six, and 126/127 mm that would fit standard six and narrow seven speed. The latter was only available in narrow spacing. Eight speed freewheels were also narrow spacing and required 130 mm between the dropouts. They were never a good idea, and were short lived, replaced by 8-speed cassette systems. There were also cassette versions of everything from 5 - 7 cogs over the years. Shimano's first Dura Ace 8-speed hubs had special nuts that spread the dropouts a little on insertion, to allow them to be used in frames designed for 6/7-speed. All this is to say that if your frame fits a six-speed freewheel at 126 mm or thereabouts, it will also fit seven speed freewheels and cassettes. Actual frame spacing was all over the map, due to manufacturing tolerances.

cudak888 

Tend to agree. Yes, there are ways of cold setting that are more controlled (and less likely to be cocked to one side or the other) than the OP's method, and any proper cold-setting always requires realignment of the dropouts to do it right - which doesn't seem to be the case here.

However, provided a frame is not heat treated steel (or aluminum - obviously), the amount of strength lost in the steel is minimal - and not much different from a framebuilder re-raking a fork blade or chainstay for tire clearance. You'll never feel it in the saddle, and it's not going to crack open 20 years from now from this minor adjustment.

-Kurt

ryanl092

Got stuck today.


The new crankset can't push into my 7400 BB. I previous thought it must be a JIS crank. My 7400BB supposed to to be JIS low profile/Campy compatible square taper. ...??


This is the max I can push it in. Thankful I got a park tools ccp22 to retreat it.


And then I pull out the shimano 600 from my Ironman. It's a pretty good fit. chainline seemed to be aligned properly. I may use 600 crank for my first ride. My measurement of the taper open is 13.6mm^2 for 600 and 13.4mm^2 for the new crank. The smaller side is 12.6mm for both. The depth is 19mm for 600 and 17mm for new crank. New crank looks like a stronglight or similar, if so it's BB suggest length will be 107mm. My BB is 113mm asymmetric. ....Can I invert it to have ~110mm length?
I found that it's tough to find a cheap enough 70mmx107mm BB for me to do experiment based on this unknown crank....

Ryan