Roll Top Rear Panniers on the Front
04-09-23, 05:23 PM
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Roll Top Rear Panniers on the Front
So I currently have Ortlieb Back Roller Classics on the rear of my Atlantis .. and Ortlieb Front-Roller City's on the front ... I am using Nitto large rear rack and the Nitto large front rack .. both offer two placements for the panniers [high & low] ... on the top of the front rack I was carrying my sleep kit [quilt, air mattress silk liner,& sleeping clothes] in a compression sack .. my current issue is the handlebar bag & the rack mounted compression sack always seem to interfere with each other .. just another area of where I might be able to avoid some mild frustration .. So I began looking at the pros & cons of purchasing an additional set of Back Roller Classics for the front which might allow me to eliminate the top rack mounted compression sack .. in doing so it would potentially open up a spot where I could carry a 2 or 4 liter MSR water bladder .. to heat up with the sun for a shower at the end of a days riding ... on the top of the back rack I do use a Ortlieb 24L rack duffle that contains my tent & ground cloth .. any thoughts on my idea or potential cons that I am not accounting for .. thanks Glenn
04-09-23, 09:14 PM
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If you provide more information about the type of touring you do, weight carried, etc., you might get might get more specific answers.
This is the way I pack my bike for most tours. Most of my rides are on pavement, and camping is usually in campgrounds. The gear carried, less than 40 lbs., is the same for 3-weeks or 3-months.
My sleeping gear fits into the Ortlieb Rack Pack: compressible pillow, 2-person tent, Thermarest pad, and sleeping bag and ground cloth. I use compression bags.
For scale-- my tent in the blue compression bag next to my water bottle.
This is the way I pack my bike for most tours. Most of my rides are on pavement, and camping is usually in campgrounds. The gear carried, less than 40 lbs., is the same for 3-weeks or 3-months.
My sleeping gear fits into the Ortlieb Rack Pack: compressible pillow, 2-person tent, Thermarest pad, and sleeping bag and ground cloth. I use compression bags.
For scale-- my tent in the blue compression bag next to my water bottle.
Last edited by Doug64; 04-09-23 at 10:01 PM.
04-09-23, 11:34 PM
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The bags that you already have: the back rollers, front rollers, bar bag, and 24L rear rack bag should already be enough capacity for a round the world expedition tour.
I'd look at slimming down your luggage and throwing away any dead weight.
In my setup the two rear panniers contain everything camping and sleeping related, plus parts and tools, plus a spare tire, all inside the panniers. The two front panniers, one contains all my clothes, the other food and cookware. Finally my bar bag contains my personal items and electronics. There's nothing on top of my rear rack. Sometimes I take a saddle bag instead of a bar bag if I want to run aerobars. I never take both a saddlebag and a bar bag, it's one or the other.
With this setup I rode across Asia twice, including a part which was in winter well below freezing. You have a 24L rack bag on top of what I have, that's not even mentioning the stuff you have on top of your front rack. We all have our own touring styles but maybe make a review of what you really need.
Three things which may save you some space: a modern sleeping pad which rolls down to the size of a soda can; a sleeping bag in a compression sac which compresses down to the size of a soccer ball. Slightly larger than that if you need a winter bag. Likewise for a decent tent.
I'd look at slimming down your luggage and throwing away any dead weight.
In my setup the two rear panniers contain everything camping and sleeping related, plus parts and tools, plus a spare tire, all inside the panniers. The two front panniers, one contains all my clothes, the other food and cookware. Finally my bar bag contains my personal items and electronics. There's nothing on top of my rear rack. Sometimes I take a saddle bag instead of a bar bag if I want to run aerobars. I never take both a saddlebag and a bar bag, it's one or the other.
With this setup I rode across Asia twice, including a part which was in winter well below freezing. You have a 24L rack bag on top of what I have, that's not even mentioning the stuff you have on top of your front rack. We all have our own touring styles but maybe make a review of what you really need.
Three things which may save you some space: a modern sleeping pad which rolls down to the size of a soda can; a sleeping bag in a compression sac which compresses down to the size of a soccer ball. Slightly larger than that if you need a winter bag. Likewise for a decent tent.
Last edited by Yan; 04-09-23 at 11:52 PM.
04-10-23, 02:45 AM
#4
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Here is my bike leaving Prudhoe Bay. I have Back Roller panniers on both front and back. One pannier is full with eight days of food and I have some extra warm clothes.
Once in Fairbanks, I got rid of a few things and didn't have as much food to carry. However, I also picked up a bear canister on the front
For me, the most likely pro and con is that I can carry more stuff. If needed I can slim it down slightly when I have less carrying capacity.
Another secondary issue is that it can put some additional stresses on the front rack. The rack in both photos is a Surly rack that mounts using mounting hardware that looks like this. The weak spot appears to be that narrow front (on the top/left, bottom/right) where it slips around an eyelet. I took this same rack on a preceding trip across Russia. Originally those Surly mounts didn't have that bend on the right side where the three holes attach to the rest of the rack.
After ~1500km+ of sometimes corrugated gravel roads and using heavier Back Roller loads, the spots around both eyelets stressed and broke. Fortunately, I was able to slide the rack back just a bit and get purchase a little further back.
Even without the eyelet racks, it would still have worked suspended from the top, but then corrugations would have caused it to bump even more back and forth - so that also wouldn't have been best for the rack.
After the Russia trip, I noticed online that I wasn't the only one who had Surly mounting hardware fail at the eyelet points. I wrote Surly and they sent, free of charge, the new redesigned eyelet mounts that had an extra bend (and are pictured above) compared to my original rack mounts that were straight/flat across. Since then, I had carried Back Roller panniers in the front, including the Prudhoe Bay/Alaska photos above. Also since then, the eyelets have not failed - so I don't know whether the redesign helped or whether I just had slightly fewer stresses than extended period on corrugated road across Siberia. US/Canadian gravel roads I traveled tended to be better and not as long.
Once in Fairbanks, I got rid of a few things and didn't have as much food to carry. However, I also picked up a bear canister on the front
For me, the most likely pro and con is that I can carry more stuff. If needed I can slim it down slightly when I have less carrying capacity.
Another secondary issue is that it can put some additional stresses on the front rack. The rack in both photos is a Surly rack that mounts using mounting hardware that looks like this. The weak spot appears to be that narrow front (on the top/left, bottom/right) where it slips around an eyelet. I took this same rack on a preceding trip across Russia. Originally those Surly mounts didn't have that bend on the right side where the three holes attach to the rest of the rack.
After ~1500km+ of sometimes corrugated gravel roads and using heavier Back Roller loads, the spots around both eyelets stressed and broke. Fortunately, I was able to slide the rack back just a bit and get purchase a little further back.
Even without the eyelet racks, it would still have worked suspended from the top, but then corrugations would have caused it to bump even more back and forth - so that also wouldn't have been best for the rack.
After the Russia trip, I noticed online that I wasn't the only one who had Surly mounting hardware fail at the eyelet points. I wrote Surly and they sent, free of charge, the new redesigned eyelet mounts that had an extra bend (and are pictured above) compared to my original rack mounts that were straight/flat across. Since then, I had carried Back Roller panniers in the front, including the Prudhoe Bay/Alaska photos above. Also since then, the eyelets have not failed - so I don't know whether the redesign helped or whether I just had slightly fewer stresses than extended period on corrugated road across Siberia. US/Canadian gravel roads I traveled tended to be better and not as long.
04-10-23, 05:08 AM
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Without knowing what kind of touring you’re talking about, I tend to agree with Yan.
I have the Nitto Big front and rear racks and Ortlieb Back and Sport Packers. I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t need to carry anything on the front platform. The rear platform holds my tent and plastic tarp. I don’t use a bar bag. 4L of water weighs nearly 9 lbs. No thanks. No shower in camp? I’d rather heat water with my stove and take a bird bath.
Inside is everything, including cold and wet weather gear and my mattress and sleeping bag. Also a relatively elaborate cooking system. About an hour before the photo was taken I had a big sandwich and a juice packed for lunch. Still in the bags were two breakfasts and one dinner. (The next day was a rest day in an area where groceries were non-existent, and I didn’t want to eat dinner at the local roadhouse two nights in a row.)
I have the Nitto Big front and rear racks and Ortlieb Back and Sport Packers. I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t need to carry anything on the front platform. The rear platform holds my tent and plastic tarp. I don’t use a bar bag. 4L of water weighs nearly 9 lbs. No thanks. No shower in camp? I’d rather heat water with my stove and take a bird bath.
Inside is everything, including cold and wet weather gear and my mattress and sleeping bag. Also a relatively elaborate cooking system. About an hour before the photo was taken I had a big sandwich and a juice packed for lunch. Still in the bags were two breakfasts and one dinner. (The next day was a rest day in an area where groceries were non-existent, and I didn’t want to eat dinner at the local roadhouse two nights in a row.)
04-10-23, 08:35 AM
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To answer your question, yes, you can and in fact you might see an improvement in bike stability if you have had "shimmy" issues. It could make it worse too. Just experiment and keep and eye out for toe overlap. I once had use an old 80s steel frame that had a ton of flex in it. Out of desperation to get a more balanced weight front/back, I swapped the front and rears and it worked fine and the shimmy went away. Frequently on just an overnighter, I only carry front packs (large or small depending on food arrangements).
However, like others, really consider what you are taking and if it doesn't make you smile or is an absolute necessity that you may never use (like a patch kit), leave it at home. Rarely in 45 years of touring have I said while on tour "I sure wish I had brought X item". It is usually just the reverse. About 10 years ago, I have started bringing a printed packing list and marked the item off if I actually used it. If I didn't, I doubly review whether I need to bring that item on future trips. As a result, my gear weight over the years has dropped about 1/3 and climbs are easier.
However, like others, really consider what you are taking and if it doesn't make you smile or is an absolute necessity that you may never use (like a patch kit), leave it at home. Rarely in 45 years of touring have I said while on tour "I sure wish I had brought X item". It is usually just the reverse. About 10 years ago, I have started bringing a printed packing list and marked the item off if I actually used it. If I didn't, I doubly review whether I need to bring that item on future trips. As a result, my gear weight over the years has dropped about 1/3 and climbs are easier.
Last edited by John N; 04-10-23 at 08:42 AM.
04-16-23, 11:21 PM
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I thank you all for responding .. to answer a bit of the important information that I left out .. my touring has taken place in the USA and Canada ... I lean more towards paved roads .. and the ACA Tier/ maps .. I have visited and revisited my choices of gear and I constantly try to revise my lists ... I have followed Darren Alff / the bicycling touring pro and his choice of gear and his packing techniques ...and now I see mev's gear/bike set up .. utilizing 4 rear panniers .. I am convinced my desire to streamline my gear into just 5 bags maybe the right decision for me .. I do hear what yan & doug are encouraging me to do .. that is take a closer look at my unnecessary gear & maybe how tight I pack the panniers .. and I thank you both for that .. Glenn
04-17-23, 08:06 AM
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Unfortunately you chose the City version of the Front Rollers. My standard issue Front Rollers have a strap over the top, I put my rain gear on top of the panniers using that strap.
In the above photo you can see that the handlebar bag sits much lower than my handlebars, yet it still easily clears what is below. On this bike, my front panniers are about 3 inches higher than you typically see on a standard low rider rack, which also puts the Front Rollers that much higher towards my handlebar bag.
I think you just need to quit using a front platform on your front rack.
In the above photo you can see that the handlebar bag sits much lower than my handlebars, yet it still easily clears what is below. On this bike, my front panniers are about 3 inches higher than you typically see on a standard low rider rack, which also puts the Front Rollers that much higher towards my handlebar bag.
I think you just need to quit using a front platform on your front rack.
