PoeCo

My husband and I are pretty new to riding tandem (though not new to riding bikes). We picked up a tandem in very late summer 2017 and took to it very quickly. We have been enjoying it so much... except that the tandem is too big for us and is creating pain when traveling any sort of real distance. Unfortunately, we're just not finding what we want/need in a stock tandem, so we know we're going to have to go custom (barring a miraculous second hand find).

Since this is still new to us, we were hoping to get some advice/thoughts from those who have experience riding different sized wheels/tires.

The builder we have primarily been speaking with is strongly recommending that we get 26" wheels. We've explained that our current tandem is both too large and is on the heavy side (55 lbs) and we are primarily using it on paved roads (though we do ride some dirt paths/trails occasionally too), so we had originally wanted to go with 700c wheels to help (hopefully) with getting some speed and not feel weighed down. Our current tandem has 650b wheels and they seem fine, comfortable, etc, so we don't object to that size either. The biggest issue we see is that for both of us, when we've ridden 26" wheeled singles, they have always felt slow, sluggish and so on compared to a road bike with 700c wheels. We definitely don't want to feel sluggish on the new tandem.

I am personally a bit concerned that the tandem builder isn't addressing our concerns but is rather stating that he (as a tall tandem rider) rides on 26" wheels and always has, without reassuring us that the tandem won't feel slow. We don't take issue with 26" wheels, but we just want to make sure we are going to get what we're asking for out of another tandem.

Any thoughts on this matter would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

LesterOfPuppets

Fast, light 26er wheels are possible.

I just built a front wheel with Campagnolo record hub, Sun EQ21 equalizer rim and when shod with a compass elk pass tire is very sprightly indeed.

Have another of those rims but still deciding on a rear hub. Don't think I wanna do Campy cassettes,so won't be matching the front.

ksryder

Find a builder who listens to you. Absolutely nothing wrong with 700c.

B. Carfree

Do you want to feel fast or go fast? You can make a bike feel faster by putting the narrowest tires pumped up to the highest pressure they will take on it. They will transmit very high frequency vibrations and make you feel like you're tearing up the road. Sadly, or perhaps not, those vibrations are also leading to suspension losses which are more than making up for the lack of losses due to tire deformation.

Now, if you want to actually go fast, wider ends up being better, all other things equal. Of course you want to select a tire that is as supple as possible, one of the things that isn't always equal. However, those fatter tires won't feel fast. They don't transmit high frequency vibrations as they deform to road imperfections, but they also don't cause the suspension losses that hard-as-solid tires do.

I'm perhaps a bit biased here since both of my tandems have had 26" wheels, which was the way we started back in 1988. However, since we used to spin along on the flats at over 30 mph and rode double centuries in under eight hours on them, I think we were fast enough. We also kind of had to go with 26" wheels because my captain is only 5'6", which makes the geometry weird if we opt for bigger wheels.

Now that we're old and looking into things like hip replacements, we're a lot slower and might go with fat tires even if they weren't faster because of the increased comfort, especially for the stoker (that's me). Such a choice, speed with comfort or the illusion of speed with discomfort. It seems easy enough.

PoeCo

I captain our tandem and I am not quite 5'4" (which is why I believe the builder is pushing for the 26" tires). We were told 650b could be possible, but that with 700c wheels I would likely not care for the steering due to having to push the fork rake out farther to make things as right as possible. Which I do understand -- I just want to make sure we're not going to end up with something that isn't what we are wanting to get.

We are good with (and actually like) having wider tires, and completely agree with you that they make the ride more pleasant (my singles all have 38mm or larger tires on them, even the road bikes), but wider widths are available in most tire sizes today (thankfully), so I just want to make sure we're making a wise decision in all regards.

Thank you to each of you for your comments too. Every thought/opinion is helpful, so we appreciate it!

lichtgrau

We built a new tandem around a Ti–frame last fall and since I wanted exactly t h a t frame our wheel size was more or less given. I'm 6'2" and my wife is 5'4". Our frame is on the rather low side since we like a good stand over height.So,especially in the back, 28" (or even 29") wheels would have looked rather unusual...
For making the wheels I had to find a dealer/mechanic since Rohloff (the speedhub was set for me) does not sell the hub separately (at least not here in Germany). Was a good idea anyway because the mechanic had a huge experience and knew a lot (if not all ;-) about wheels. We talked a lot and he stated that he sees the 26"-wheels in a tandem still as a very reliable solution when it comes to stability. Aiming for not more than 36 spokes this was a good point for me.
Now, some miles later, we're still happy with our setup and sense no downsides in speed or agility...

And: Those are the first 26"-wheels I ever had on a bike.

Ludkeh

We like the 26" wheels and tires on our Davinci tandem because we can run them at lower tire pressure. Really makes the ride much smoother for us. As we've gotten older it makes a difference.

LV2TNDM

I would approach it with optimal frame geometry and handling as your prime consideration. Sure, there MIGHT be an ideal tire size out there (most availability, or "fastest"), but what good does that do you if you've seriously compromised frame geometry and ride quality in the process? Foot/wheel overlap would probably be your biggest concern. Nothing like encountering this issue and dropping the bike with you and your stoker aboard to nullify any "ideal tire/wheel size" gains! Plus, do you want crappy handling ALL THE TIME just to satisfy a perceived advantage in speed?

I wouldn't on a single, much less a tandem. If your captain needs smaller than 700C wheels to achieve ideal frame geometry, then do it. The only exception I would consider would be if there were a SERIOUS lack of tire options for you in your location. As in, what good is a tandem with ideal fit and geometry if there are no tires available to ride it? And remember, many a Bike Friday 20" wheeled tandem owner has put in many, many happy miles without issue.

LV2TNDM

That's surprising that you can't get separate Rohloff hubs in the country where they're located! That's some Scheisse right there! I guess they've negotiated only complete wheel sales in Germany? Probably want to be sure wheel builds are done exactly to their specs to prevent warranty/consumer safety issues like some knucklehead building a radial wheel! Bummer. Same with Schmidt Dynamo Naben? That would be a total bummer as a wheel builder. Oh well, what can you do!

Mistikka

5'2" stoker, 6'2" captain, made-to-measure DaVinci tandem, 26" wheels. We couldn't be happier.

alias5000

Many BSO's are 26'' bikes. I'm not sure how much your impression of 26'' is shaped by that experience. Mine certainly was a bit.

I recently converted a single 26'' MTB into an all-season road commuter. The components are upper mid-level (Shimano Deore et al). I also own a 700C single hybrid used for tours, as well.
The 26'' commuter recently received 28mm slick tires (Schwalbe Durano, certainly on the 'makes you feel fast'-side of the spectrum). This bike is in a relatively good shape (drivetrain and bearings run smooth) and its a lighter aluminum frame (all in all, incl. commuter gear and lock I'm likely around 15kg). Compared to my 700C touring hybrid, I am very similar in speed now, as measured by a bike computer.
If I can/could, I will/would build up a set of 700C tires for summer use, just because my favourite tire option isn't available in 26''. Other than that, I see no significant reason any more, why 26'' is a worse option. If component availability is better for 650b (I cannot comment on that), maybe 26'' vs 650b could be a conversation worth having.

Given that a tandem possesses a huge amount of inertia anyways, I wouldn't look too much on the added inertia that 700C wheels offer.

I would agree 100% with those saying that geometry and fit should come before anything else, as long as desired components are available.

PoeCo

This is good to read. It's nice to see that others (even taller riders) have used 26" wheels and not experienced any detriment (at least discernible) in speed. I appreciate your input very much!

PoeCo

No, absolutely not! I do not want horrible handling because that would make tandem riding miserable for me and the whole point of tandeming was to be able to enjoy the time together. It's not always easy to take the word of someone selling you something though, you know? So, I definitely wanted to see what others who ride tandem have experienced before believing every word without question. I think the frame geometry for each of us is definitely priority number one, but just wanted to make sure we aren't doing something stupid by agreeing to 26" wheels either.

Definitely appreciate your thoughts/input, so thank you!

PoeCo

Awesome! Great to know. Thank you!!

PoeCo

All fantastic thoughts... and, you are right that a tandem already has the extra inertia once moving, so this is certainly something to consider too. Thank you so much for adding your thoughts and experiences.

geoffs

At your height i would be thinking that 26" wheels would be fine for you. The major problem with small frames is toe overlap at slow speeds. to get enough clearance using 700c wheels the normal thing to do is to change the seat tube and fork angle so the tope tube is longer which mucks up the handling as it results in steering "flop".
If you get the frame so it will take 26" x 2" tyres you will be able to run tyres that are comfortable and reasonably fast like Schwalbe Supremes.
650b x 38mm gives the same rolling diameter as the 26" x 2"

scycheng

We switched from custom built 700C tande to custom built 26" tandem to get more volume in tires (no more pinched flats on rough roads/paths!). The handling is still good. I use fat slicks (Schwalbe Kojak 26x2) with 48-spoked wheels and the bike rolls fine.

The 48-spoked 26" wheels are overkill but I prefer over-engineering so I won't have to look for spare parts in the middle of nowhere.

Much easier to pack into S&S cases.

OneIsAllYouNeed

Your tandem builder should be listening to you, the customer. Unless they're the absolute best fit for you otherwise, you might want to look elsewhere. I feel that custom bike builders also have a responsibility to help educate their customers such that each decision is an informed decision. These bikes are a big investment, you shouldn't be left wondering if you made the right decision or didn't have a choice.

There are fast and slow tires in 26", 650b, and 700c. The same exact tire in those 3 sizes should perform similarly. Since disc brakes have gone mainstream, many bikes are now designed for excellent handling 2 wheel sizes with narrower tires on the larger rim size. I designed my tandem around 650b x 55mm tires or 700c x 35mm tires. As it turns out, we've been loving 650b x 42mm tires on that bike -- we've never even bothered building 700c wheels for it.

Your builder

PoeCo

That is the current plan if we go with 26" tires... that they will accept up to 2". Thank you for your thoughts.

PoeCo

Good to know. Thank you!

PoeCo

Agreed. I do believe they are listening and have provided reasons for suggesting strongly the 26" wheel size. We are a couple that is used to doing everything ourselves. The few times we've trusted professionals to do something for us, it has never gone well. We built up the current tandem (and have built up and rebuilt many singles over the years - though we know tandems are different in some ways), so we're not completely in the dark in regard to how to build the bike up. But, because tandem riding is new to us, we don't want to do something foolish either.

Again, I agree. We are freaking out about spending this amount of money on a new tandem, particularly knowing we can't ride it before we buy it to know if it is actually going to work for us. It's unnerving and we don't have the financial ability to start over if it doesn't work out. We know we have a choice, but I think the whole process is just making us both uneasy.

Brakes have been another discussion point that has caused some headaches. We went in originally wanting disc brakes, but it has been suggested that rim brakes with a disc drag brake might be a good option for us. I, personally, don't object to either option, but it is confusing when the builder states 5-6 pound differences in a build simply because we want disc brakes instead of rim brakes (especially since the build with the rim brakes would have a disc on the rear anyway as a drag). We know that disc brakes are heavier, but they are not that much heavier, so that has also given us pause as we try to calculate numbers that don't make sense. I would think that the weight would somewhat even out as the rims for caliper brakes would need to be stronger/denser. A pound to two might make sense, but the numbers seem over estimated. Perhaps this is a way of not over-promising? Hard to say.

Thank you for all your notes... all things to keep under consideration as we continue on.

OneIsAllYouNeed

I've been seeing about a 1lb difference between rim and disc brakes on complete tandems. Yes, bikes with disc brakes are heavier (at the same price and durability point), but not by 5lb. The difference could be closer to 2lb if the rim brake model uses an Enve road 2.0 fork, but that's not a good fit for the bike you've described so far.

Alan_F

I was thinking the builder may have had good reasons for suggesting 26" based on the handling of the bike that would result with larger wheels and the frame size you need, but this information about brakes makes me think it is time to find another builder. Unless you only ride flat terrain in dry weather and are trying to build an ultralight bike you want dual disc brakes on your tandem.

I no longer ride anything without dual discs, and the stable includes a variety of discs: Avid BB-7 (MTB tandem), TRP Hy/Rd (road tandem), Shimano road hydraulic (commuter, road single) and Shimano MTB hydraulic (backup commuter, MTB single). The only disc brakes I ever had that I didn't care for were some cheap Tektro mechanical brakes on a cross bike. I would say that disc brakes are the future, but they aren't - they're the present.

As for the wheel size debate, our current DaVinci road tandem was built with 26" wheels and we rode it that way for many years using 1.1" and 1.5" Schwalbe tires. The 1.1" tires were light and fast, but not quite as smooth on rough roads as a similar width tire in 700c. A few years ago we switched the bike to 700c (28mm Conti tires) and I like them better.

The new DaVinci we're having built (Ti, S&S, Di2 dual hydraulic disc) is being built with 700c wheels. The bike is a large/small (6' captain and 5' stoker) so there was no problem getting the bike to handle well with larger wheels.

Based on my experience I would go with the largest wheel that can be built with good handling when using your intended tire width. If that is 26" then go with 26". If they can make 650B work, great.

DubT

I have no idea who you are dealing with as a builder but could I suggest that you visit a "Tandem Specific shop" such as Tandem Cycle Works - Denver, Colorado

They are in the Denver area and it would probably be money well spent to go see them.

Here are some questions for you (we have had something like 8 tandems over the years so I have some experience):

1. Intended purpose? cruising, racing fast fitness riding?

2. Team weight?

3. Typical ride, flat, hilly or a variety?

4. How much are you willing to spend?

5. Who will be captain and how tall are you both?

6. Do you want a bike that handles like a single or does it matter.

7. Road/off-road or a combination

How many builders have you actually talked to? Why are you considering the builder that wants you to use 26" wheels.

Our current tandem is a Calfee Tetra that i built in 2011 and we have put over 30,000 miles on. It is equipped with 700C X 28mm tires and it is comfortable, handles great and is fast.

PoeCo

I'm almost starting to wonder if the extra weight is coming from a heavier fork with the disc brakes. I don't know with certainty, but I just can't see how brakes alone can cause such a huge difference in weight.